Powerline Adaptors?

[Jon T]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Depends on the speed, the cable and whether it's near any sources of interference.. CAT6 will work further than 100M on 100Mbps where as CAT5 is restricted to 100M for the same speed in perfect conditions..

I was offering the quickest and most simple explanation

[Kymmy]

Originally Posted by Jon T

I was offering the quickest and most simple explanation

Ahh, the good old KISS method... You weren't a techie in the armed forces were you ??? Just that it's the same way that us techies used to explain to the mechs

---------- Post added at 09:13 ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 ----------

Originally Posted by nickhlx

EXCEPT.....

...do be aware that it severely buggers up radio reception for up to 250 meters around them so you may upset a few neighbours - They also slow down internet connections and will likely soon be banned because they "got round" the EU certification - OFCOM will / are removing them when they get a complaint.

Anyway, why do you want to get your PC "on the air" where everyone can hack into them ? Seems completely crazy technology to me - and these have greater "range" than conventional wireless, so MUCH greater audience for someone to hack into you - DEFINITELY don't waste your money and compromise your security !!

Nick

Hhhhmmm, a bit of truth and a load of non-truths..

The amatuer radio community (their receivers are a lot more sensitive than standard radios/TV's) wants these banned as yes they do send out a lot of radio interference (and to be honest I'm suprised that they ever got an import licence) but apart from a few basic petitions no action has been noted or taken.

As far as unsecure that's not true, even the earlier ones had password key encryption so yes people can recieve the signal but it's no less secure than a well encrypted wifi signal.

So they are a good tool and do get a lot of people out of a jam, but if you live next to a ham radio operator then they can call in OFCOM and get them to prohibit their usage based on inteference to a primary frequency..

As for more range than wifi it totally depends on the frequency and if the OP ever tries a spectrum analyser next to a standard wifi unit he might get a shock...

[Jon T]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Ahh, the good old KISS method... You weren't a techie in the armed forces were you ??? Just that it's the same way that us techies used to explain to the mechs

No, disability precluded me from ever taking that path, Dumbing things down is an integral part of job, I generally don't go into much detail unless a)It's needed, and b)The person(s) that i'm talking to can understand.



Wasn't going to mention this, but if you look on the RSGB website, there are moves being made to mount a judicial review into the legality of power line home networking devices: http://www.rsgb.org/news/article.php?id=0011

The newer varieties of these device will use frequencies well into the hundreds of megahertz, that's where air traffic control, police, ambulance and fire brigades have their blocks of RF spectrum, not to mention the non-safety of life comms such as broadcast radio.

Ofcom can and will remove these devices once a complaint has been made that they are causing interference.

[Kymmy]

Originally Posted by Jon T

The newer varieties of these device will use frequencies well into the hundreds of megahertz, that's where air traffic control, police, ambulance and fire brigades have their blocks of RF spectrum, not to mention the non-safety of life comms such as broadcast radio.

Most electronics already use frequencies within that spectrum, PC's has been running memory at 133Mhz(airband), ethernet is 100Mhz (public broadcast), Wifi/microwaves/other licence free devices) at 2.4Ghz (extremely close to Ham radio including it's harmonics)..

Originally Posted by Jon T

Ofcom can and will remove these devices once a complaint has been made that they are causing interference.

From what I do know Ofcom has investigated a lot of complaints and no action has yet been taken (following normal RFI precautions/preventions will cure most problems)

I think that's the issue atm is that there's to many amatuers who think that their hobby is purely about plugging a black box into a bought antenna and nothing else needs to be done

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Jon T

No, disability precluded me from ever taking that path, Dumbing things down is an integral part of job, I generally don't go into much detail unless a)It's needed, and b)The person(s) that i'm talking to can understand.



Wasn't going to mention this, but if you look on the RSGB website, there are moves being made to mount a judicial review into the legality of power line home networking devices: http://www.rsgb.org/news/article.php?id=0011

The newer varieties of these device will use frequencies well into the hundreds of megahertz, that's where air traffic control, police, ambulance and fire brigades have their blocks of RF spectrum, not to mention the non-safety of life comms such as broadcast radio.

Ofcom can and will remove these devices once a complaint has been made that they are causing interference.

All that link says is that amateur radio enthusiasts are trying to get funds to launch a legal challenge to OFCOM's stance on this. Even assuming it gets as far as Court, the challenge can still fail.

It's not correct to say they will be banned. It's correct to say they may be banned.

[Jon T]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

It's not correct to say they will be banned. It's correct to say they may be banned.

But I didn't say that did I Stuart? Nowhere in my post did I use the term "banned".

A judicial review or other similar legal process will clarify if these devices are legal or not.

The fact still remains that if somebody in my neighbourhood is using these devices, and I suffer and report interference to OFCOM then the devices stand a good chance of being removed.

---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Kymmy

From what I do know Ofcom has investigated a lot of complaints and no action has yet been taken (following normal RFI precautions/preventions will cure most problems)

Then you aren't or haven't looked hard enough. Devices have been removed, how many I don't know, but they have been.

RFI precautions/preventions? They are transmitting wideband RF from close range on the same frequencies that I use Kymmy, how can "normal RFI precautions/preventions" help that. My equipment is doing what it's supposed to do, receive what's on that frequency.

I've suffered interference from these devices, thankfully the offending party moved house before I reported the issue. It was full scale blanket interference from practically DC up to around 38Mhz. And trust me, NOTHING could be done.

I take it you don't operate on HF? and/or ever witnessed this kind of interference first hand?

To be honest, I think the general attitude is that a bunch of old folk sat in back rooms clutching morse keys are holding back innovation. I have to say i'm surprised by your stance a bit Kymmy, thought you'd understand the problem a bit more.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Jon T

But I didn't say that did I Stuart? Nowhere in my post did I use the term "banned".

Sorry, I did not mean to imply you did. That last sentence was aimed more at the guy above who posted that they will be banned.

[Kymmy]

Yep I do run HF and also I have recently used these devices (and so has next door as I was asked to install them for him) I got a few squawks on a few bands but rerouting the co-ax/proper earthing and a low pass filter soon dropped them to a minimum that was below the snr thresholds apart from on a few spot frequencies (had far worse interference from other hams)

What I do get sick and tired of is other hams who have had bad experiences with a few cheaply made homeplug copies who think that there should be a blanket ban on all other technology just because they have a radio licence by answering a load of multiple choice questions and then seem to spam all the radio ham forums to that extent..

Reminds me of the days when hams where up in arms about RTTY, then AMTOR, then Packet and most recently APRS

[Jon T]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Sorry, I did not mean to imply you did. That last sentence was aimed more at the guy above who posted that they will be banned.

No probs, sorry I got hold of the wrong end of the stick

---------- Post added at 12:14 ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 ----------

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Yep I do run HF and also I have recently used these devices (and so has next door as I was asked to install them for him) I got a few squawks on a few bands but rerouting the co-ax/proper earthing and a low pass filter soon dropped them to a minimum that was below the snr thresholds apart from on a few spot frequencies (had far worse interference from other hams)

What I do get sick and tired of is other hams who have had bad experiences with a few cheaply made homeplug copies who think that there should be a blanket ban on all other technology just because they have a radio licence by answering a load of multiple choice questions and then seem to spam all the radio ham forums to that extent..

Reminds me of the days when hams where up in arms about RTTY, then AMTOR, then Packet and most recently APRS

I do see your point, and there is a place for this type of technology, if used properly. There are also a great many people with Amateur licenses that IMHO opinion didn't ought to have them!

Some of the power line networking devices I have seem have been notched, and the notching is pretty good too, where it's used. Unfortunately there are a lot of the cheaper badly made units out there that don't bother with this.

Somehow I don't think your interference problem was the same as mine, as mine was still there at an S3 with no antenna plugged in. Yours sound more as if if was some sort of pick up issue on the shield of your co-ax. I had a non-amateur I know come round here with a spectrum analyser, his words were along the lines of "the only way you'll shift that is by getting the thing turned off".

BTW, what are people moaning about APRS for? Great mode if used properly for what it's designed for.

[Kymmy]

Oh some people just don't like F2D/F1B on a band that they think should be J3E/F3E or A1A

[Hiroki]

So are these adapters good or bad?

My mums neighbours have a load of ariels in their back garden and attached to their house so would these adapters effect those???

I can still cancel my order if they are going to be bad news.

[Kymmy]

Hard to tell, as Jon and I say the cheaper ones are definately to be avoided but as radio hams use many different frequencies and have lots of different equipment it's very hard to say if it will be a problem or not..

[Hiroki]

I better cancel these by the sounds of it.

Thanks Kymmy

[Kymmy]

Perhaps you should talk to the ham concerned and ask his opinions??

[Hiroki]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Perhaps you should talk to the ham concerned and ask his opinions??

I've cancelled them but your probably right....any idea what I need to find out to make sure the adapters will be fine to use?