Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Any solution won't be perfect but it's delusional to pretend the current situation can't be significantly improved.

Issues with the current situation do indeed include time available to spend on their full time roles but importantly also include treason (working against the interests of the British government), lobbying and conflicts of interest.

So how does that not effectively wipe out all Labour Party members?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

So how does that not effectively wipe out all Labour Party members?

I don't really understand what you're saying. I'm not an expert on party membership as I've never been a member of any party but can't see how my suggestions wipe out Labour, Conservative or any other party members,

The current situation of MPs' second jobs is clearly flawed. How would you improve it?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I don't really understand what you're saying. I'm not an expert on party membership as I've never been a member of any party but can't see how my suggestions wipe out Labour, Conservative or any other party members,

The current situation is clearly not working. How would you improve it?

Trade Union donations pay for policies and for Labour MPs to lobby for them. IIRC They also pay the office expenses for some MPs and in at least one case for a particular person to be selected as a candidate.
At the very least there should be acknowledgement that being an MP is an unusual situation and environment that doesn't have any real comparisons.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Any solution won't be perfect but it's delusional to pretend the current situation can't be significantly improved.

Issues with the current situation do indeed include time and energy available to spend on their full time MP roles but importantly also include treason (working against the interests of the British government), lobbying and conflicts of interest.

Treason: the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government.

[ianch99]

Anyone keeping count?

Tory MP with financial interests in a company that sells insurance to pay for care tried to change the law to help companies that sell insurance to pay for care.

MP with stake in giant health insurer lobbied for ‘Australian-style’ care insurance

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Move along now, plenty more room:

SOUTH Somerset’s MP has been forced to stand up in parliament and apologise after an investigation into his businesses.

As well as finding Marcus Fysh had broken parliamentary rules, the committee on standards slammed him for being ‘patronising’ towards the commissioner.

The investigation was launched after a Private Eye article in September 2018, claimed that Mr Fysh’s register of financial interests entry was incorrect.

Mr Fysh did not register changes to three companies - London Wessex Ltd, Wessex Investments Proprietary Ltd and London Wessex Brands Ltd - within 28 days.

But the committee also discovered Mr Fysh held unpaid directorships at five companies within the Wessex Investments Group.

None of these five positions were in his declared interests.

MP Marcus Fysh in hot water over FIVE undeclared businesses

[1andrew1]

And another case of a conflict of interest today.

Grant Shapps, the minister for private jets, is ‘lobbying against his own government’

The aeroplane-owning transport secretary is spending public money on lobbyists opposing the government’s own plans to build on private runways, including one he has personally used.

I don't have a subsription, but for those that do, see https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...ment-l6cmgtkfg
For the rest of us, see the Sky News photo here:
https://news.sky.com/story/wednesday...pages-12427754

[papa smurf]

Keir Starmer faces sleaze row over 'using his Commons office for party political campaigning'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mpaigning.html

Sleaze just keeps piling up upon sleaze

I knew there were untrustworthy MPs in the House of Commons but not as many as this. So depressing. Maybe Peter Viggers was more than the tip of the iceberg.

[OLD BOY]

If the Opposition is so concerned about second jobs, when are they going to put forward proposals to stop the practice? Why did they not do it when in office?

This is all politicking designed to wrong-foot the Conservatives, but actually most of the public don’t care. At the election booths, most people make their decisions on the basis of which party is most likely to benefit them and which party is going to achieve the best solutions for the problems in the country and for the economy.

Labour would do well to start shaping its own proposals for levelling up the country to win back the red wall seats they lost last time. Fat chance. Labour MPs come out with stuff like ‘What does levelling up even mean?”

Well the red wall constituents know. Labour would do well to read up on it and to understand what those people want.

The current Westminster hysteria about second jobs is nothing but hot air and it’s totally irrelevant to most people. If the Opposition really wanted to tackle it and stop the practice, they should cease ‘outing’ Conservative MPs and come up with a solution, before MPs on their own side are caught out. The MP with the largest number of outside commitments was Labour’s David Lammy, with 24 entries. What goes around comes around.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

If the Opposition is so concerned about second jobs, when are they going to put forward proposals to stop the practice? Why did they not do it when in office?

This is all politicking designed to wrong-foot the Conservatives, but actually most of the public don’t care. At the election booths, most people make their decisions on the basis of which party is most likely to benefit them and which party is going to achieve the best solutions for the problems in the country and for the economy.

Labour would do well to start shaping its own proposals for levelling up the country to win back the red wall seats they lost last time. Fat chance. Labour MPs come out with stuff like ‘What does levelling up even mean?”

Well the red wall constituents know. Labour would do well to read up on it and to understand what those people want.

The current Westminster hysteria about second jobs is nothing but hot air and it’s totally irrelevant to most people. If the Opposition really wanted to tackle it and stop the practice, they should cease ‘outing’ Conservative MPs and come up with a solution, before MPs on their own side are caught out. The MP with the largest number of outside commitments was Labour’s David Lammy, with 24 entries. What goes around comes around.

Hugh posted some opinion polls showing support increasing for Labour and decreasing for the Conservatives so it looks like it's starting to cut through. It's the Gvernment's place to enact legislation, not the Opposition's and no Opposition is going to do the government's work for them.

I must admit, I would quite like to know what levelling-up means too but don't want to go off-topic. Conservative MPs would like to know too. I suspect it's probably akin to Theresa May's definition of Brexit at the moment.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

If the Opposition is so concerned about second jobs, when are they going to put forward proposals to stop the practice? Why did they not do it when in office?

Classic whataboutery.

This is all politicking designed to wrong-foot the Conservatives, but actually most of the public don’t care. At the election booths, most people make their decisions on the basis of which party is most likely to benefit them and which party is going to achieve the best solutions for the problems in the country and for the economy.

A sizeable proportion of the public do care, and as you well know elections are won in lost in the marginal constituencies. If enough people care about Tory corruption that’s could be enough for many Tory MPs to get their P45.

Labour would do well to start shaping its own proposals for levelling up the country to win back the red wall seats they lost last time. Fat chance. Labour MPs come out with stuff like ‘What does levelling up even mean?”

Well the red wall constituents know. Labour would do well to read up on it and to understand what those people want.

From the man who called Boris Johnson off topic.

The current Westminster hysteria about second jobs is nothing but hot air and it’s totally irrelevant to most people. If the Opposition really wanted to tackle it and stop the practice, they should cease ‘outing’ Conservative MPs and come up with a solution, before MPs on their own side are caught out. The MP with the largest number of outside commitments was Labour’s David Lammy, with 24 entries. What goes around comes around.

I’m not sure the Daily Mail or Daily Express count as the Opposition. Often it’s a matter of public record who is trousering thousands to represent corporate interests against the interests of the electorate at large. It needs no input from the Labour Party or anyone else.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Hugh posted some opinion polls showing support increasing for Labour and decreasing for the Conservatives so it looks like it's starting to cut through. It's the Gvernment's place to enact legislation, not the Opposition's and no Opposition is going to do the government's work for them.

You don't want to be putting too much faith in those polls Andrew . . . most of them said that Brexit wouldn't happen

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Hugh posted some opinion polls showing support increasing for Labour and decreasing for the Conservatives so it looks like it's starting to cut through. It's the Gvernment's place to enact legislation, not the Opposition's and no Opposition is going to do the government's work for them.

I must admit, I would quite like to know what levelling-up means too but don't want to go off-topic. Conservative MPs would like to know too. I suspect it's probably akin to Theresa May's definition of Brexit at the moment.

The opinion polls are up and down all the time, but elections make people think more about what they are doing. This current Westminster episode will be as good as forgotten by then anyway.

The Opposition has the opportunity of putting forward legislation for consideration in the Commons if they wanted to, Andrew, so they don’t simply have a passive role.

As for ‘levelling up’, I am surprised that anyone should not know what that means on either side of the House.

---------- Post added at 15:23 ---------- Previous post was at 15:20 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

From the man who called Boris Johnson off topic.

What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, jfman.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The opinion polls are up and down all the time, but elections make people think more about what they are doing. This current Westminster episode will be as good as forgotten by then anyway.

The Opposition has the opportunity of putting forward legislation for consideration in the Commons if they wanted to, Andrew, so they don’t simply have a passive role.

As for ‘levelling up’, I am surprised that anyone should not know what that means on either side of the House.

---------- Post added at 15:23 ---------- Previous post was at 15:20 ----------



What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, jfman.

Proof if ever it were required that you’ve no sincere intention of engaging with the debate other than to defend the Conservatives at all costs to your waning credibility.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The opinion polls are up and down all the time, but elections make people think more about what they are doing. This current Westminster episode will be as good as forgotten by then anyway.

The Opposition has the opportunity of putting forward legislation for consideration in the Commons if they wanted to, Andrew, so they don’t simply have a passive role.

Why would an Opposition Party spend their energy doing the Government's work for them? Labour is not in coalition with the Conservatives.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The opinion polls are up and down all the time, but elections make people think more about what they are doing. This current Westminster episode will be as good as forgotten by then anyway.

I'm afraid wishing these case studies of corruption away won't do it for the electorate and a lot of the press. Something needs to change and Johnson needs to swiftly make sure it's the legislation and not the occupier of No. 10 that changes.