Catholic Church admits Bible is BS

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Hugh

With scientific papers (especially reports on early pre-peer reviewed papers), it’s always best check the updated source material - for instance, the pre-release paper quoted in the first two articles never went to publication because they couldn’t duplicate the results (the basis of Science being that things are observable, measurable, and repeatable).

https://arxiv.org/abs/1008.3907# (updated paper a year after the initial paper).



The third link was referring to this paper from last year

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aay9672

The scientist quoted said "may have been smaller", not "were smaller’

The joy of Science is that if it finds something that doesn’t fit with previous findings, it’s announced, investigated, and peer-reviewed - the first two examples you provided couldn’t be validated, and the third has found a single source anomaly which is being investigated further; the third paper doesn’t say "the laws of physics can vary", it states "we find a spatial variation is preferred over a no-variation model at the 3.9σ level.."

Here’s the layman’s version of that third paper.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020...stant-in-time/



tl:dr - something that differed from previous findings has occurred, more investigations needed.

btw, you keep bringing up the fact that your father is a physicist - may I ask which branch of physics he specialises in, as Physics is an enormous field (for example, my God-son has a Degree and a Masters in Astrophysics, but I wouldn’t expect him to be an expert or to keep up to date with advances in Nuclear Physics, Quantum Mechanics, Fluid Mechanics, Geophysics, or any of the other complex areas of Physics).

I am sorry Hugh but after how you have responded to me in this thread I will not be reading any of your replies to me at all. Just thought I would let you know to save you wasting your time

Convenient…

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

I know you are prejudiced towards me because I am a Jehovah's Witness and that is fine we expect that

It is not my definition of faith it is the definition of faith

"complete trust or confidence in someone or something."

I have faith there is a God and his name is Jehovah and he sent his first angel to Earth to pay a ransom sacrifice for Adams sin

Those who follow Science have faith that the things they cannot possibly know but trust that there was a big bang and everything has evolved

All just faith

Incidentally scientists think everything we believe is invention but hey lets just single out the Jehovahs

Oh, where to begin.

The Hebrew Tetragrammaton is transliterated as YHWH. It is probably more accurate to Anglicise it as Yahweh but that’s a minor point. It means “I Am” and is intended to convey his eternal power and sovereignty more than to give his people a name to call him by. The Old Testament does indeed use I AM (YHWH) as a name but Jewish tradition has been to speak ‘The Lord’ and Christians for centuries have translated it ‘The LORD’ out of respect for that tradition. At the end of the day, I don’t call my parents by their given names even though I know what they are, out of respect for the relationship between us.

Second, Jesus is not, and never was, an angel. The writer to the Hebrews addressed this, calling the Son the “ the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being” (v3), asking “For to which of the angels did God ever say?” (v5, and following verses) and stating that God addressed the Son as “Lord” (v10).

Jesus is the eternal Son of God (Son being a signifier of relationship not progeny). He is as much God as is the Father and the Spirit; even your own organisation’s highly questionable rendering of the New Testament can’t hide Thomas’ realisation of Jesus Divine nature on seeing him resurrected (John 20:28). The great weight of New Testament witness to who exactly Jesus is only makes your organisation’s deliberate misrepresentation of John 1:1 even more silly. But your New World ‘translation’ says what it does because that’s what the Watchtower Society needs it to say.

I will say no more about the definition of the word ‘faith’ as used in science - there are actual scientists on the forum and they can say how comfortable they are with it. I will however point out that it was you that accused scientists of ‘inventing’ dark matter in order to patch up their theories, which really is a sad misrepresentation of what scientists actually do. Still, you are a member of a cult that thrives on misrepresenting anything it doesn’t control so this isn’t really surprising. Maybe the meeting halls of the Watchtower Socieity are bereft of scientists - it wouldn’t be surprising given the way you talk about them. Actual Christian churches, however, have plenty of scientists in them.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Chris

Oh, where to begin.

The Hebrew Tetragrammaton is transliterated as YHWH. It is probably more accurate to Anglicise it as Yahweh but that’s a minor point. It means “I Am” and is intended to convey his eternal power and sovereignty more than to give his people a name to call him by. The Old Testament does indeed use I AM (YHWH) as a name but Jewish tradition has been to speak ‘The Lord’ and Christians for centuries have translated it ‘The LORD’ out of respect for that tradition. At the end of the day, I don’t call my parents by their given names even though I know what they are, out of respect for the relationship between us.

Second, Jesus is not, and never was, an angel. The writer to the Hebrews addressed this, calling the Son the “ the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being” (v3), asking “For to which of the angels did God ever say?” (v5, and following verses) and stating that God addressed the Son as “Lord” (v10).

Jesus is the eternal Son of God (Son being a signifier of relationship not progeny). He is as much God as is the Father and the Spirit; even your own organisation’s highly questionable rendering of the New Testament can’t hide Thomas’ realisation of Jesus Divine nature on seeing him resurrected (John 20:28). The great weight of New Testament witness to who exactly Jesus is only makes your organisation’s deliberate misrepresentation of John 1:1 even more silly. But your New World ‘translation’ says what it does because that’s what the Watchtower Society needs it to say.

I will say no more about the definition of the word ‘faith’ as used in science - there are actual scientists on the forum and they can say how comfortable they are with it. I will however point out that it was you that accused scientists of ‘inventing’ dark matter in order to patch up their theories, which really is a sad misrepresentation of what scientists actually do. Still, you are a member of a cult that thrives on misrepresenting anything it doesn’t control so this isn’t really surprising. Maybe the meeting halls of the Watchtower Socieity are bereft of scientists - it wouldn’t be surprising given the way you talk about them. Actual Christian churches, however, have plenty of scientists in them.

All of what you have said to contradict me is you expressing your faith. I am not sorry I do not agree with you and will not accept the trinity.

I think you are wrong end of, you think I am wrong then systematically attack my faith. Difference between us being I love you as my neighbour you despise me because my faith is different to yours

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

All of what you have said to contradict me is you expressing your faith. I am not sorry I do not agree with you and will not accept the trinity.

I think you are wrong end of you think I am wrong then systematically attack my faith. Difference between us being I love you as my neighbour you despise me because my faith is different to yours

I despise the watchtower organisation because it deceives people, whom I love … go figure.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Chris

I despise the watchtower organisation because it deceives people, whom I love … go figure.

unless it ends up being right. We shall see

Incidentally a lot of the scientists you have defended will think you deceive those in your congregation

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

I am sorry Hugh but after how you have responded to me in this thread I will not be reading any of your replies to me at all. Just thought I would let you know to save you wasting your time

OK how about if I ask? Which area of Physics does he specialise in?

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

unless it ends up being right. We shall see

I give you Mr Charles Taze Russell: “[It is] an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A.D. 1914” - and when that didn’t pan out he had several further bites of the cherry throughout the rest of the decade. Maybe also ask your elders how many of the millions living in 1925 have never died?

And yes, I am aware your more recent leadership has attempted to … ah … ‘reinterpret’ some of your founder’s more outlandish utterings. However, I’m not the one claiming membership of an organisation that thinks it alone has the power to interpret the Bible and the signs of the times. If I were, I’d be more than a little concerned at how often it’s got those interpretations wrong.

Incidentally a lot of the scientists you have defended will think you deceive those in your congregation

I’m aware that many scientists are not Christians. I’m comfortable with that truth and I seek to show the value of faith in Jesus to them, as with everyone.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Russ

OK how about if I ask? Which area of Physics does he specialise in?

I will ask him next time I speak to him but I know he worked a lot on anti lock breaking systems for aircraft including concord and later on electronics for fighter aircraft including the eurofighter

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:46 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

I give you Mr Charles Taze Russell: “[It is] an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A.D. 1914” - and when that didn’t pan out he had several further bites of the cherry throughout the rest of the decade. Maybe also ask your elders how many of the millions living in 1925 have never died?

And yes, I am aware your more recent leadership has attempted to … ah … ‘reinterpret’ some of your founder’s more outlandish utterings. However, I’m not the one claiming membership of an organisation that thinks it alone has the power to interpret the Bible and the signs of the times. If I were, I’d be more than a little concerned at how often it’s got those interpretations wrong.



I’m aware that many scientists are not Christians. I’m comfortable with that truth and I seek to show the value of faith in Jesus to them, as with everyone.

Since Eve convinced Adam to partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge everyone has been imperfect and seeing as there have been no prophets for a very long time no one with a direct line to God to tell them when they have made a mistake

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

I will ask him next time I speak to him but I know he worked a lot on anti lock breaking systems for aircraft including concord and later on electronics for fighter aircraft including the eurofighter

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:46 ----------



Since Eve convinced Adam to partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge everyone has been imperfect and seeing as there have been no prophets for a very long time no one with a direct line to God to tell them when they have made a mistake

Bit risky having every Kingdom Hall in the entire world doing the same printed study at the same time, every week, all year then, isn’t it?

A core strength of the actual Christian church is that at any one time there are a huge number of theologians studying all aspects of the faith, in dialogue with one another, challenging one another. It’s an important safeguard against heresy and unorthodoxy. Even in the worst excesses of the medieval period the Roman Catholic Church was never as centralised and controlling as your Watchtower organisation is.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Chris

Bit risky having every Kingdom Hall in the entire world doing the same printed study at the same time, every week, all year then, isn’t it?

A core strength of the actual Christian church is that at any one time there are a huge number of theologians studying all aspects of the faith, in dialogue with one another, challenging one another. It’s an important safeguard against heresy and unorthodoxy. Even in the worst excesses of the medieval period the Roman Catholic Church was never as centralised and controlling as your Watchtower organisation is.

We are assigned a section of the bible to study for our midweek meeting
1st Part is a talk on the section
2nd Part is a Q and A on the section
3rd is a bible reading from it
Then we have 3 Ministry School sections examples of certain subjects and often a talk
Then we have a second on various matters varying from cong to cong
Then we have a Q and A on a book study we are going through at the moment it is on Ezekiel's prophecies

Sunday we have a half hour talk then a Q and A on the Watchtower study edition

So no I do not think it is risky

We too have a large number continually working on all aspects of the bible and so on. We have complexes all around the world working continually producing literature in 100s of languages . We have annual conventions and bi annual assemblies. We make our own movies and educational shows for all we write our own songs and this is just a small part of what the organisation does

You are funny with your bit about the Catholic Church, made my night that bit

Just as a side note once again let me point out that you attack my faith and I do not yours. Just showing my Christian nature

[Russ]

Is pointing out flaws “attacking it” though?

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Just as a side note once again let me point out that you attack my faith and I do not yours. Just showing my Christian nature

I’m not Marty McFly - you aren’t going to reverse-psyche me into doing what you want.

The Watchtower Society is a cult, because it claims to be a Christian church while denying whole sections of the orthodox, historic Christian faith. Those who follow it are assured they are following the pattern of life shown in scripture, but they are not. They are following the ramblings of just another 19th century millennialist nutter, who was manifestly wrong during his lifetime, and whose teachings were manifestly wrong on multiple occasions throughout the 20th century. As a Christian theologian there is simply nothing there for me to trust. There’s nothing in the Watchtower’s interpretations of the Bible that I can rely on.

But the saddest thing about The Watchtower Society for me is that it robs those it deceives of a fulfilling relationship with God through Jesus, because it denies who he is. You can never have life in all its fullness, as Jesus promised, as long as you’re trapped in the Watchtower’s lies. Lies, incidentally, which it has an enormous financial motive in sustaining, as you yourself have proved. What it’s all about really is the publication and sale of books and magazines. You have stressed the size of the publishing operation more than once. I know you didn’t intend to suggest the Watchtower is really just a big money-making wheeze, but you do rather give the game away.

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:51 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ

Is pointing out flaws “attacking it” though?

Oh I am absolutely attacking the Watchtower, make no mistake. Both boots, studs up.

It’s engaged in deception and I wish people were freed from it.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Chris

I’m not Marty McFly - you aren’t going to reverse-psyche me into doing what you want.

The Watchtower Society is a cult, because it claims to be a Christian church while denying whole sections of the orthodox, historic Christian faith. Those who follow it are assured they are following the pattern of life shown in scripture, but they are not. They are following the ramblings of just another 19th century millennialist nutter, who was manifestly wrong during his lifetime, and whose teachings were manifestly wrong on multiple occasions throughout the 20th century. As a Christian theologian there is simply nothing there for me to trust. There’s nothing in the Watchtower’s interpretations of the Bible that I can rely on.

But the saddest thing about The Watchtower Society for me is that it robs those it deceives of a fulfilling relationship with God through Jesus, because it denies who he is. You can never have life in all its fullness, as Jesus promised, as long as you’re trapped in the Watchtower’s lies. Lies, incidentally, which it has an enormous financial motive in sustaining, as you yourself have proved. What it’s all about really is the publication and sale of books and magazines. You have stressed the size of the publishing operation more than once. I know you didn’t intend to suggest the Watchtower is really just a big money-making wheeze, but you do rather give the game away.

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:51 ----------



Oh I am absolutely attacking the Watchtower, make no mistake. Both boots, studs up.

It’s engaged in deception and I wish people were freed from it.

No I will let your reply to Russ do just that

We give all literature away for free. Witnesses donate what they want no plate no standing with a look at what I give, all anon. No one has been charged for a book in a long long time

on that note I will go watch some telly

[Russ]

Just tried to give you an out