Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Stephen

Thank you. The exact same point I was making.

All medications have side effects and can be deadly. People can be allergic to asprin or paracetamol even and can die from it too.

As for your response Mick, I've been in and out if hospital that often over the past 5 years that I have gotten to know quite a bit about drug reactions, allergies and what can happen. From bring advised on things and from asking many questions. I've been through 6 operations in the past 13 months, on and off different medications. Had allergic reaction to different antibiotics and other drugs. So I'm no armchair know it all. I have dealt with many consultants and doctors and other medical staff over numerous hospitals.

Proving that one thing caused that reaction can be hard. You trying to claim that covid-19 vaccines or any vaccines for that matter are 100% to blame in all cases is just wrong. I also never made a blanket claim of any kind, that was on you interpreting it incorrectly. Such things must be investigated and proven.

No, excuse me, nowhere did I say 100% to blame. I’m throwing this back at you & suggesting you’re saying, no deaths, or serious injuries have been caused by the vaccine, when in many many cases, they absolutely have.

I repeat AstraZeneca have admitted in court documents, that their vaccine, in rare cases can cause thrombosis, anybody suffering a thrombosis, is a medical emergency.

---------- Post added at 02:14 ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 ----------

All twelve of the bereaved claimants have received death certificates or medical evidence that confirms that the AZUK vaccine caused the deaths and injuries suffered by their loved ones.

https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/news...e-side-effect/

Originally Posted by Mick

Adverse reactions in all drugs exist.

Of course, thats not in question.

Originally Posted by Mick

What does not effect millions of people, can effect an handful, in a serious way. That’s my point.

It may have been your intended point, but your reply came over otherwise.

Originally Posted by Mick

No, excuse me, nowhere did I say 100% to blame.

Well unfortunately, you kinda did.

Your response directly disagreed with what was said, thus indicating you believe injuries or deaths after a vaccine mean the vaccine was the cause.

Again, that may not have been your intention, but it is what you said - which is why had to disagree with you.
I do however agree with your since clarified point, vaccines and drugs can (and do) sometimes have adverse effects.

In the wider context, my reply to Stephen isn’t suggesting 100% blame, he suggested something as a fact, I merely stated, it isn’t a fact at all.

And I’m not an antivaxxer, I had my vaccines at the time and they made me very ill, the second dose a lot more than the first, I refused to take the follow-ups.

[nffc]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Thank you. The exact same point I was making.

All medications have side effects and can be deadly. People can be allergic to asprin or paracetamol even and can die from it too.

As for your response Mick, I've been in and out if hospital that often over the past 5 years that I have gotten to know quite a bit about drug reactions, allergies and what can happen. From bring advised on things and from asking many questions. I've been through 6 operations in the past 13 months, on and off different medications. Had allergic reaction to different antibiotics and other drugs. So I'm no armchair know it all. I have dealt with many consultants and doctors and other medical staff over numerous hospitals.

Proving that one thing caused that reaction can be hard. You trying to claim that covid-19 vaccines or any vaccines for that matter are 100% to blame in all cases is just wrong. I also never made a blanket claim of any kind, that was on you interpreting it incorrectly. Such things must be investigated and proven.

In some cases it's clear cut but in others it's more open to debate. This is why we have qualified doctors assessing bodies after people die to try and understand the cause of death. I would assume there's a high chance they're not always right.


Reading the last few posts in this thread I don't think any of you are wrong, or that the incorrectness of any statements can't really be proven.


Everyone is different. Everyone's body reacts differently to any medicines or indeed anything else (some people could die if they eat a nut). Some people won't react at all to the vaccines (including an immune response providing the actual designed effect). Others will potentially go into shock and die within minutes whilst being healthy before. Others may develop side effects over time, but in those cases, it may not be clear cut that the vaccine is the cause. Covid itself has been known to cause heart issues which is one thing often slung at the vaccines.


It's difficult to prove the effects were down to the vaccines but it's unknown what the effects of them over even 5 years are as we haven't used them that long yet. So it's also hard to say for sure how safe they are. This doesn't mean that vaccinating wasn't the right thing to do.


Just because something is against the established narrative at the time, where full facts have not been proven, it doesn't mean they are wrong. Early in the pandemic everyone was on about how it came from bats or pangolins and those who mentioned a lab leak were dismissed as nutters. Now the lab leak theory has much more traction even though it's not proven. And there were people early on saying we'd be in lockdowns for ages when they said only a few weeks and there would be things like people fined for not wearing masks (long before this happened) and not getting vaccinated (this happened too) and again these were dismissed at the time for being nuts. I think there's a fair chance the vaccines, whilst safe for most people, could cause long term health issues in others, not because of anything being rushed, but because that is simply the situation. It's not medically comparable to them giving thalidomide to all those pregnant women years ago, but there are some parallels, they didn't know the other form did that and couldn't presumably separate it out before it caused a lot of damage.

[Angua]

Having not been vaccinated for a while (had 3, all different with only minor symptoms) as I fell outside the protected characteristics, getting COVID fairy recently was no fun at all. worse than flu and lasted a lot longer.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Mick

No, excuse me, nowhere did I say 100% to blame. I’m throwing this back at you & suggesting you’re saying, no deaths, or serious injuries have been caused by the vaccine, when in many many cases, they absolutely have.

I repeat AstraZeneca have admitted in court documents, that their vaccine, in rare cases can cause thrombosis, anybody suffering a thrombosis, is a medical emergency.

---------- Post added at 02:14 ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 ----------



https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/news...e-side-effect/

Again Mick, it's on you. No ehere at all have I stated that vaccines have not caused any injury or death.

All medications and vaccines pose a risk. Everyone is different. But in many cases it's not easy to prove. I took adverse reactions to an antibiotic and it took the staff in the hospital over 7 days to decide that was the root cause of my symptoms. After which I got another bought of same infection, I was then given a different antibiotic that I was assured would be fine as was told noone is allergic to both due to being in different groups.

Well just my luck, it transpired I was allergic to that one too.

So yeah it is possible that vaccines can cause reactions in some people. Especially when so many doses were given to much of the world population in a short space of time.

I have had 6 doses and never had more than a sore arm and slight headache. Only had covid once and while it was not nice it actually affected my wife much worse, at the time was still awaiting her vaccine shot. While a friend with the same health issues as me died from covid before the vaccine was around.

So I'm still all for getting vaccinated. It's worth any small risks

[Taf]

One of our neighbours is in the same situation as a couple of others nearby. They live with their aged mothers who were fully vaccinated. But they all refused the vaccines due to their bizarre beliefs (lizard people, the WEF, vaccines being used to inject chips, etc.).

His mother was taken to hospital after developing breathing difficulties. Positive LFT, then positive PCR test. Oxygen and antiviral therapies started immediately. On day 6 of her stay, her son was brought in with the same symptoms, and got the same therapies.

After 9 days she was ready to leave, but could not as she had no-one at home to care for her. She had to block a bed until her son was released a few days later.

She looks OK, but her son looks thin, pale and weak. I asked after her, and it was obvious that he still holds his bizarre beliefs.

[Stephen]

It's such a shame and so sad that people get like that. Unfortunately my biological mum and her sister are like that. Sharing all sorts of conspiracy nonsense on Facebook believing all the bilge of the day. WEF, weaponised weather, chemtrails etc.

You'd think after he got so ill from covid and she didn't he might actually have realised how wrong he was about the vaccine.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by nffc

In some cases it's clear cut but in others it's more open to debate. This is why we have qualified doctors assessing bodies after people die to try and understand the cause of death. I would assume there's a high chance they're not always right.
.

A bit like when somebody tested positive for Covid and died of a heart attack, cause of death was put down as Covid?

Originally Posted by Pierre

A bit like when somebody tested positive for Covid and died of a heart attack, cause of death was put down as Covid?

Well at one point, if you tested positive then died in a car accident, I believe you were counted as a covid death. I think they fixed that though ?

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Paul

Well at one point, if you tested positive then died in a car accident, I believe you were counted as a covid death. I think they fixed that though ?

The ruling was to mark "died WITH covid", and that was very early on. I suspect that was to protect people who came in contact with the bodies.

[nffc]

It was originally deaths within x days of a positive test which didn't necessarily mean covid was a contributory factor in their death.

It'd also exclude someone like Derek Draper, where it clearly was.

[Dude111]

Originally posted by Mick
You aren’t medically qualified to determine having a vaccine or eating something caused the rash & in the health industry, someone having a rash, after a drug being administered, would cause a patient to require medical intervention. I work in the health industry, as does Ramrod, we know what we are talking about, we won’t take lectures from armchair know it alls.

Wow I didnt realise this Mick....... I can talk openly to you or Ramrod about this and you guys wont cut me down......... Im very glad of that mate!!!!

To be clear, not everyone who works in the "health industry" is a doctor, I also work in it.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Paul

To be clear, not everyone who works in the "health industry" is a doctor, I also work in it.

Me too, to a fashion and I'm not a doctor or nurse, my in-laws were/ are and so is my sister in-law but I'm not medical or even clerical