National Service in the British Military

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Anonymouse

And has anyone thought to ask the Regulars what they think? I doubt it. It's all very well expecting National Service draftees to pursue peacetime roles (not that a lot of 'em aren't doing that already). But what happens if they're actually called up?!

Ask a 20-year squaddie if s/he wants an untrained civilian, a mere 18 years of age at that, to back them up in a firefight. You think the Armed Forces are down now? Regulars will quit en masse in self-preservation, and hang their pensions - you can't spend money if you're dead!

No, the Tories are doomed now. For a whole bunch of reasons, this will never fly.

The subject cropped up over lunch in the mess with a couple of them during my visit to Blandford today. The WO1 had a similar opinion to mine, that is that it would be better to give the option to youngsters who commit crime.

I told them I had a sigh of relief that I'm way to old, as discipline and me never got on.

Originally Posted by Hugh

so they’re going for the Boomer vote .

This I just dont understand, how does this benefit "Boomers"

[Anonymouse]

Originally Posted by idi banashapan

Interesting final line. During the second global disagreement with Germany, young lads not old enough to pass a driving test today were placed in bombers and flew overseas to bring fire from the skies. They were capable enough. They won a war.

I wonder if your point is more about today's young peoples' capacity or willing rather than their age. Perhaps then this is more about the values and standards in today's society? Perhaps if we look at it from that angle, we might argue that giving these young people, where society has become too lenient and too 'tolerant', where there are no boundaries or consequences for their actions even from their parents, might give them a place to grow and develop. Where they can build lasting comraderies and friendships. Where they might find a calling, or at the very least, something they can feel proud about and where acheivement (likely something they rarely experienced in school or at home) is rewarded and recognised.

Sometimes, people need to be pushed into something that is outside of their comfort zone at first, to actually reach their potential. Maybe this is that thing for many, many young people struggling to find a way in life, where the opportunities are harder to find, things cost far more than they did and thus their prospects are deminishing all the time.

Do you think this is an unrealistic scenario that a lot of young people face?

Welll...you might have a point. But young people these days want - indeed, demand - a choice. And Heinlein was right about conscription. I think he believed that any country which had to rely on conscription wasn't worth defending in the first place. That, in fact, was the point of Starship Troopers - the novel, not the film. Anyone serving did so because they wanted to (though at one point Rico couldn't for one moment recall why he'd signed up, and it wasn't when he took his licks - the Mobile Infantry was actually paying him a compliment of sorts, i.e. 'yes, you screwed up, but you might be salvageable, so we'll give you something you'll never forget', rather than kicking him out. Had Rico messed up as badly as he did in the film, he'd have been immediately discharged dishonourably and possibly charged with involuntary manslaughter).

Voluntarily, it might work. Might. As conscription, it can't work. I think Sunak has just lost the vote of anyone affected by this. And TBH, if I were in combat - a prospect more unlikely than me winning the National Lottery...especially as I don't play it - I wouldn't want some rookie backing me up. They won't either, and who could blame them?

I agree that the young need some discipline and boundaries. But this isn't the way (though I concede I don't really have an alternative).

Originally Posted by Paul

This I just dont understand, how does this benefit "Boomers"

It doesn’t benefit them, it motivates them to vote Conservative by playing up to (for some) their prejudices (teenagers are lazy), so bringing back National Service is a Shibboleth for some of that age cohort, even though it’s very unlikely that most of them even undertook it…

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Anonymouse

And has anyone thought to ask the Regulars what they think? I doubt it. It's all very well expecting National Service draftees to pursue peacetime roles (not that a lot of 'em aren't doing that already). But what happens if they're actually called up?!

Ask a 20-year squaddie if s/he wants an untrained civilian, a mere 18 years of age at that, to back them up in a firefight. You think the Armed Forces are down now? Regulars will quit en masse in self-preservation, and hang their pensions - you can't spend money if you're dead!

No, the Tories are doomed now. For a whole bunch of reasons, this will never fly.

Originally Posted by Anonymouse

Welll...you might have a point. But young people these days want - indeed, demand - a choice. And Heinlein was right about conscription. I think he believed that any country which had to rely on conscription wasn't worth defending in the first place. That, in fact, was the point of Starship Troopers - the novel, not the film. Anyone serving did so because they wanted to (though at one point Rico couldn't for one moment recall why he'd signed up, and it wasn't when he took his licks - the Mobile Infantry was actually paying him a compliment of sorts, i.e. 'yes, you screwed up, but you might be salvageable, so we'll give you something you'll never forget', rather than kicking him out. Had Rico messed up as badly as he did in the film, he'd have been immediately discharged dishonourably and possibly charged with involuntary manslaughter).

Voluntarily, it might work. Might. As conscription, it can't work. I think Sunak has just lost the vote of anyone affected by this. And TBH, if I were in combat - a prospect more unlikely than me winning the National Lottery...especially as I don't play it - I wouldn't want some rookie backing me up. They won't either, and who could blame them?

I agree that the young need some discipline and boundaries. But this isn't the way (though I concede I don't really have an alternative).

You know Heinlein's fascist Earth wasn't worth fighting for but Britain in WWII was, in fact this country was fighting against what that Earth became.

Your view of the young people involved isn't congruent with what happened post WWII either, for instance there were a number of National Service conscripts in the Gloucestershire Regiment at Imgin River and I doubt there was a single veteran who wasn't grateful some rookie was watching their back that day