Britain outside the EU

[Sephiroth]

I've no serious objections to "some form of joining the EU", but I seriously object to "re-joining". What we left was a bad egg.

The "some form" would need to be:

1. Retention of national veto (their Parliament wants to abolish this).

2. No possibility of federalisation (ever-closer union).

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

A snowflake whinger loses his court case in a victory for free speech. I wonder if the Daily Mirror's sister publication the Br'Express will cover this?

https://www.ft.com/content/0cde470a-...e-64980de68f39

He’ll just have to suck it up…

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I've no serious objections to "some form of joining the EU", but I seriously object to "re-joining". What we left was a bad egg.

The "some form" would need to be:

1. Retention of national veto (their Parliament wants to abolish this).

2. No possibility of federalisation (ever-closer union).

I think you'll find those 2 points would be non negotiable for 'new' members, and to be fair if we had to rejoin on the EU's terms it would serve us right. We gave up our grandfather rights when we left and we're never getting them back.

https://x.com/pritipatel/status/1730...Fx9lsEXWlOa1jg

Priti Patel MP
@pritipatel

This Christmas, wonderful produce made in Essex will be enjoyed by people across Britain and around the world. That's why I have called on the government to reduce the trade barriers on exporters so that Britian’s finest produce can be enjoyed all across the globe.

15:17 30/11/2023

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

I think you'll find those 2 points would be non negotiable for 'new' members, and to be fair if we had to rejoin on the EU's terms it would serve us right. We gave up our grandfather rights when we left and we're never getting them back.

You’re right about REJOIN. But my playbook excludes rejoin. I’m looking forward to the re-aligned EU that may arise at implosion point. Unlikely? Prolly.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I've no serious objections to "some form of joining the EU", but I seriously object to "re-joining". What we left was a bad egg.

The "some form" would need to be:

1. Retention of national veto (their Parliament wants to abolish this).

2. No possibility of federalisation (ever-closer union).

Would you not want to add retain £ to that list?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Would you not want to add retain £ to that list?

S’pose. I took that as given based on the 1 & 2.

[Paddy1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

https://x.com/pritipatel/status/1730...Fx9lsEXWlOa1jg

Gaslighting or does she really not understand how trade barriers work?

Originally Posted by Paddy1

Gaslighting or does she really not understand how trade barriers work?

Both?

[roughbeast]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

So, now we have left the European Union. What now? How do we navigate our way ahead? How do we make the decision of the electorate work in practice?

Frankly, I am looking forward to making deals with all these other trading blocs around the world that are purely arrangements about trade and that don’t try to force you into some sort of political union.

Does anyone have any views on what our priorities should be? Personally, I think the next big deal should be with the US, and we need to bring in those free ports that the PM referred to a few months ago as soon as possible.

Should our farmers be gearing up to produce more now that we are free of the wasteful CAP? Which new markets should we be exploiting after the US?

So many questions...so many opportunities.

I have never been clear on what Brexit meant. Before the vote we were sold a variety of options. Farage tried to tempt wavering Leavers with a Norway-style Brexit, others with a customs union Brexit, or just have us as members of the EEA, keeping us effectively in the Single Market. There was some talk about a No Deal Brexit with us being on the really complex WTO rules and trade tariffs. So, people casted their vote to Remain or Leave. Those who voted Leave had a number of possible Brexits in mind, but we are told that cutting immigration was a driving force. (That went well! ) As it turned out, as soon as Leave won, folk like Farage, Richard Tice and Johnson insisted that Leave Means Leave and that meant 'No Deal'

What has never been explained to me by any Leaver, least of all Farage, Tice and Johnson is what a No Deal Brexit would look like in terms of the NI border, the GFA and what international free trade deals we would have to replace the loss in EU trade we would have if we were to be on WTO trade tariffs. I picked up from Farage and Rees-Mogg that they thought the EU would be so desperate for trade with us they would be clamouring to do a free-trade deal with us asap and that we would be able to call the shots. Moggy explained after the vote that we might not see the full Brexit benefit for 50 years after an initial rough ride. I wish he had said that before the vote.

As it turned out, May then Johnson did deals that pleased nobody. Johnson won an election on the basis of getting Brexit done and then proceeded to do a hard Brexit deal, with the UK as a third country, in an all out attempt to be rid of EU rules we had helped make in better days. The EU, contrary to Leave expectations, played hard ball. It turns out, based on the existing trade set up with the EU and other economies that we stand to lose 5% GDP annually over the next 15 years. This doesn't take into account the delayed introduction of full trade regulations that are now due in the spring. Neither does it take into account possible trade deals with the USA and India, although these are unlikely to replace even 1% of trade we have already lost with the EU. It also turns out that universally Johnson's deal is thought to be a bit of a dog's breakfast. Farage hates it as do farmers, fishermen and the owners of SME's across the land.

So, help me guys, what does a proper Brexit look like? How would a good Brexit turn out in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years or Moggy's 50 years?

[Pierre]

We’re out, stay out……for at least a generation, say 30yrs.

Then assess, where we are.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

We’re out, stay out……for at least a generation, say 30yrs.

Then assess, where we are.

Condemn another generation to mediocrity.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

We’re out, stay out……for at least a generation, say 30yrs.

Then assess, where we are.

That's not really answering roughɓeast's question though.

[roughbeast]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's not really answering roughɓeast's question though.

I really would like an answer to my question. There must be Leavers out there who know what a good Brexit looks like and what it has given us and will give us. I particularly want to know the benefits for ordinary people in the street for their daily lives. Have we seen any benefits yet? Control of borders and increased sovereignty I understand as concepts, but what does that mean for Jo and Josephine Soap?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

Condemn another generation to mediocrity.

Save another generation from Brussels.

To answer Roughie's question:

Brexit is defined for me as gaining sovereignty so as not to be governed by a foreign entity.

Then, an investment friendly government can help industry to build prosperity.

Definition is very simple; execution needs competence.



---------- Post added at 09:04 ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's not really answering roughɓeast's question though.

... your answer being? ...