25-11-2021, 11:19
|
#3121
|
067
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Middlesbrough
Age: 48
Services: Many
Posts: 4,656
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
It makes no sense to apply for asylum in the UK when you're in another safe country. That's why France is in the wrong to tacitly allow the migrants to leave France for the UK. Perfidious or what?
|
So, why not allow those wanting to come here to claim in their originating countries ?
__________________
Nerves of steel, heart of gold, knob of butter......
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 11:25
|
#3122
|
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,180
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
Yeah, but it's not false or manufactured story though is it? is it your position that the French police are not letting migrants set off in boats? There are plenty of other photos (one in the previous post) that show the French police watching migrants set off.
The question is, which you have dodged twice, do the French have a at least a moral, if not legal (not sure about that) duty to prevent them?
|
And they are trying - the French have the same issue we have with catching them landing in the UK; there is a lot of coastline to monitor.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59412329
Quote:
Since the start of 2021, he said, 1,552 smugglers had been arrested in northern France and 44 smuggler networks dismantled.
Despite this, 47,000 attempted Channel crossings to the UK took place this year and 7,800 migrants rescued, Mr Macron added.
|
---------- Post added at 11:25 ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
tsk tsk . . sodding media eh, fabricating photos to make us think migrants are rushing out to sea in flimsy dinghies
. . thank the lord we're not fooled
|
Oh look! You appear to have missed the point...
No one has said there isn't a migrant problem - but you knew that...
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 11:26
|
#3123
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees
So, why not allow those wanting to come here to claim in their originating countries ?
|
I'm possibly (some would suggest usually) wrong, but isn't this what many countries are now pushing for?
I think I read somewhere about the EU throwing money around to build 'immigration center' type places in or near the country of origin to cut down on the migration of people and do it 'in situ' as it were.
edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
No one has said there isn't a migrant problem - but you knew that...
|
We all know it, and have done for quite some time, pity all that gets done is even more talk about who's fault it is and how 'rules & regulations' prevent any meaningful answers
Last edited by Carth; 25-11-2021 at 11:30.
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 11:31
|
#3124
|
067
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Middlesbrough
Age: 48
Services: Many
Posts: 4,656
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
I'm possibly (some would suggest usually) wrong, but isn't this what many countries are now pushing for?
I think I read somewhere about the EU throwing money around to build 'immigration center' type places in or near the country of origin to cut down on the migration of people and do it 'in situ' as it were.
|
If true, I'm amazed it's taken twenty years of variations of these ongoings for countries to get this lightbulb moment.
__________________
Nerves of steel, heart of gold, knob of butter......
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 11:39
|
#3125
|
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,180
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Unfortunately, it's only a small part of the problem...
https://news.sky.com/story/record-mi...in-uk-12383928
Quote:
Sky News analysis of the last three years of complete Home Office data shows those arriving in small boats - who generally claim asylum - are only a small fraction of the number of migrants arriving in the UK each year.
Every year, an annual estimated average of 87,000 people become irregular migrants. They arrive in different ways and live without any official immigration status so cannot get a proper job, register with a GP or claim benefits.
|
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 11:45
|
#3126
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Funnily enough, I only noticed the other week that illegal immigrants have suddenly become irregular migrants . . not that it makes a blind bit of difference to some poor bugger on a boat.
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 11:55
|
#3127
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: #Plagueisland
Age: 53
Services: VM VIP Pack
Posts: 1,675
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
To be fair, if it was the other way around and there were lots of people wanting to leave the UK and claim asylum in France and we didn't let them, that would be a huge scandal. Imagine what the Express and Nigel Farage would say!
"You're not allowed to go to France, could you just sit here on this beach and look after this inflatable boat for me? Make sure no-one steals it OK lads? Thanks, bye"
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 12:08
|
#3128
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx
To be fair, if it was the other way around and there were lots of people wanting to leave the UK and claim asylum in France and we didn't let them, that would be a huge scandal. Imagine what the Express and Nigel Farage would say!
"You're not allowed to go to France, could you just sit here on this beach and look after this inflatable boat for me? Make sure no-one steals it OK lads? Thanks, bye"
|
Good point.
Question:
If a 'migrant' got on a bus in Germany, and got off in France, are they then eligible to claim asylum in France?
Similarly, if a migrant got on a ferry in France and got off in England, would they then be allowed to . . you see where this is going?
edit: paid tickets of course, not stowaways
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 12:21
|
#3129
|
Virgin Media Staff
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester
Services: 360 x2, Maxit TV, Sky Sports and Sky Cinema. Gig1
Posts: 17,929
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
If a 'migrant' got on a bus in Germany, and got off in France, are they then eligible to claim asylum in France?
Similarly, if a migrant got on a ferry in France and got off in England, would they then be allowed to . . you see where this is going?
|
As I posted this earlier, yes and yes - international law allows refugees to claim asylum in any country they choose.
However, international treaties and laws can then be used to return those refugees to a previous country to process the claim - that is what the Dublin Regulation is in the EU and the option we no longer have since we left the EU.
__________________
I work for Virgin Media but all views are my own.
Last edited by BenMcr; 25-11-2021 at 12:28.
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 12:33
|
#3130
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
Question:
If a 'migrant' got on a bus in Germany, and got off in France, are they then eligible to claim asylum in France?
Similarly, if a migrant got on a ferry in France and got off in England, would they then be allowed to . . you see where this is going?
edit: paid tickets of course, not stowaways
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr
As I posted this earlier, yes and yes - international law allows refugees to claim asylum in any country they choose.
However, international treaties and laws can then be used to return those refugees to a previous country to process the claim - that is what the Dublin Regulation is in the EU and the option we no longer have since we left the EU.
|
hmm . . . so why are migrants spending so much money and risking their lives on boats instead of tickets for a ferry crossing?
More so given we can't send them back, there must be something more to it . . .
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 12:58
|
#3131
|
Virgin Media Employee
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Winchester
Services: Staff MyRates
BB: VM XXL
TV: VM XL
Phone : VM XL
Posts: 3,127
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Surely while part of the EU they could claim asylum on the mainland, get citizenship and then come here anyway so either way we couldn't stop them.
We do have to be mindful that some have left dreadful situations and genuinely need asylum. What is harder to accept is that far too many want to get to the UK. If they are fleeing from something then nearly anywhere safe should be OK, if they are fleeing to something it's slightly different. The threat could be as real but the goal a bit different.
__________________
I work for VMO2 but reply here in my own right. Any help or advice is made on a best-effort basis. No comments construe any obligation on VMO2 or its employees.
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 13:07
|
#3132
|
Virgin Media Staff
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester
Services: 360 x2, Maxit TV, Sky Sports and Sky Cinema. Gig1
Posts: 17,929
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
hmm . . . so why are migrants spending so much money and risking their lives on boats instead of tickets for a ferry crossing?
More so given we can't send them back, there must be something more to it . . .
|
Because we have UK border control in France for ferry crossings. That was introduced to stop refugee migration via ferrys. Same as the Channel Tunnel.
https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/...rder-controls/
Quote:
- The UK operates border controls in France and Belgium. This allows Border Force officers to check passengers and freight destined for the UK before they begin their journey.
- These ‘juxtaposed controls’ are in place at Calais and Dunkirk ports, at the Eurotunnel terminal at Coquelles and in Paris Gare du Nord, Lille, Calais-Frethun and Brussels Midi stations for Eurostar passengers.
- The arrangement is reciprocal, with French officers completing Schengen entry checks in the UK. These arrangements are underpinned by bilateral treaties.
|
---------- Post added at 13:07 ---------- Previous post was at 13:00 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh
Surely while part of the EU they could claim asylum on the mainland, get citizenship and then come here anyway so either way we couldn't stop them.
|
In that case they're then citizens of the that EU country and we should treat them the same as any of citizen of that country.
__________________
I work for Virgin Media but all views are my own.
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 13:11
|
#3133
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr
|
no no no, they're refugees, migrants etc. Under international law I thought they were allowed to go anywhere to claim asylum.
Are you trying to tell me it's illegal for someone wanting to claim asylum, to actually cross a border to a different country in order to do so?
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 13:15
|
#3134
|
Virgin Media Staff
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester
Services: 360 x2, Maxit TV, Sky Sports and Sky Cinema. Gig1
Posts: 17,929
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
We're going around the same arguments again and again about when and how that works.
__________________
I work for Virgin Media but all views are my own.
|
|
|
25-11-2021, 13:21
|
#3135
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
|
Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr
We're going around the same arguments again and again about when and how that works.
|
Is that because nobody knows?
When/why is it illegal for a refugee (or whatever they want to be known as at the time) to buy a bus/rail/ferry/plane ticket in order to get to their country of choice and claim asylum?
Simple question . . . politically screwed up answer
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 7 (0 members and 7 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:51.
|