The disgrace that is Rangers Football Club - Fans caught doing Nazi Salutes in Israel

[TheBlueRaja]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

Well!! Regardless of ignorant morons, TheBlueRaja is clearly a typical football fan - full of hatred for anyone with an opposing view. People like him are the reason why I gave up football.

So you condone Nazi salutes and believe that even if it was this so called "Red Hand Salute" that it has a place in football along with bigoted chanting and provocative acts?

I'm betting though your first post was your last.

Originally Posted by Pierre

I didn't ask "what was Wrong" I just failed to see the importance, and I still do. The Nazis were indeed terrible. So too were the japanese. But we have moved on and but for a few brainless scottish drunks I just fail to see the whole "uptightness" of the situation. I bet half of them don't even knew what the symbol meant.

So they saw some of the other fans making Nazi salutes and thought "Ooooh, I don't know what they're doing, but it looks really interesting, and my right arm could do with a work-out, so I'll copy them" - do you really believe these guys didn't know they were doing Nazi salutes in order to upset the Israelis?

Originally Posted by Pierre

well that would be 16% wouldn't it based onthe localisation of that photgraph. How many were at the ground 5,000 -10,000. I don't know, but it certainly cannot be representative of the fan base.

I could only go on the evidence in the photo - how can you be sure it is not representative of the fan base? What evidence do you have to back up that statement?

Originally Posted by Pierre

again to small a snapshot to be sure.

Based on what evidence?

Originally Posted by Pierre

Ha... Genocide Glorification.......oh dear, oh dear.

Glad you find it humourous

Originally Posted by Pierre

Mindless idiots yes. trying to get a rise out of the opposition - yes. Insulting them - yes.

but if a Nazi salute is "genocide glorification" no doubt Freddie Starr, Father Ted, Indiana Jones (and that sitcom with a surburban couple living next to the hitlers) writers will all burn in hell.

I don't remember any of the episodes actually being filmed and set in Israel, and as for the Indy film, you must be running out of straws to grasp at to justify your fellow fans actions.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Maybe not gas but we bombed them virtuality into non-existence. I'm not apologising for that but eg. Dresden. we wiped them offthe face of the map. So I could definitely understand why the Germans could be upset about that. Not all Germans were Nazis. But we bombed the sh*t out of them.

That would be in response to acts of war - could you remind me when the Jewish race declared war on Germany?

Originally Posted by Pierre

Is it? is really? If you are out to offend, and that is your only objective - does it matter what the target is?

So you equate the insulting of one person with the genocide of six million - great sense of proportion.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Oh I see, there is a death threshold that has to be passed before we are offended. What is that by the way????

I honestly don't know, but I would hazard a rough guess that genocide is probably quite a bit past that threshold.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Well thats up to you. Me, I like to worry about things I can influenece.

What, like racist Rangers fans?

Originally Posted by Pierre

And they've been through at lot worse than this, so before you bestoe your anger, and then secondly your support upon them. Why not ask them how they feel. They probably have more pressing issues to deal with thasn wasting time on this non-entity

I have no anger at these idiots, only shame at being associated with them as a fellow Brit. I think if you visit Yad Vashem , you would see how they feel about people who glorify the Holocaust (even if it was only in "fun").

Originally Posted by Pierre

Isn't democracy a wonderful thing.

If you find, could you let me know?

btw, I believe these morons are probably a small section of the Rangers supporters - but why aren't Rangers being proactive and banning them; they have photograph?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

So they saw some of the other fans making Nazi salutes and thought "Ooooh, I don't know what they're doing, but it looks really interesting, and my right arm could do with a work-out, so I'll copy them" - do you really believe these guys didn't know they were doing Nazi salutes in order to upset the Israelis?

No, they knew they were doing Nazi salutes to upset the opposing fans of the israeli football team. But I doubt any of them are fully paid up members fo Combat 18.

I could only go on the evidence in the photo - how can you be sure it is not representative of the fan base? What evidence do you have to back up that statement?

I don't but you're the one making the accusation so the onus is upon you. One small photo showing a very small percentage of fans present showing an even smaller percentage of fans with their arm raised and you are accusing all Rangers fans of being racist.

Based on what evidence?

That the photo was a small snapshot and could in no way be used to incriminate the larger proportion of fans present.

Glad you find it humourous

It was a laugh of suprise and disbelief, not humour,

I don't remember any of the episodes actually being filmed and set in Israel, and as for the Indy film, you must be running out of straws to grasp at to justify your fellow fans actions.

Oh I see, so it would only be offensive to Jews to parade around as Nazis if only undertaken in Israel?????

That would be in response to acts of war - could you remind me when the Jewish race declared war on Germany?

Was it a measured response, opinion is divided, certainly the war was as good as over and we flattened Dresden to make a point, and my point of English fans forever bringing up the war and wearing German helmets is still just as valid.

So you equate the insulting of one person with the genocide of six million - great sense of proportion.

I think it's the likes of people like you that are blowing things out of proportion.

I honestly don't know, but I would hazard a rough guess that genocide is probably quite a bit past that threshold.

Indeed, doesn't explain your double standards though.

I have no anger at these idiots, only shame at being associated with them as a fellow Brit. I think if you visit Yad Vashem , you would see how they feel about people who glorify the Holocaust (even if it was only in "fun").

I would hardly call this as "Glorifying the Holocaust"

btw, I believe these morons are probably a small section of the Rangers supporters - but why aren't Rangers being proactive and banning them; they have photograph?

I agree with that.

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by TheBlueRaja

So you condone Nazi salutes and believe that even if it was this so called "Red Hand Salute" that it has a place in football along with bigoted chanting and provocative acts?

I'm betting though your first post was your last.

How on earth does me describing them as ignorant morons possibly equate to me condoning them?

[TheBlueRaja]

Took the bait did you.

You said that i am "full of hatred" and that fans like me are the reason why you gave up football. By definition, i presumed that you were referring to this because i opposed the Nazi Salutes and spoke my mind about it when you perhaps believed it was the "Red Hand Salute" and were referring to everyone else on this forum with the same view as "Ignorant Morons", hence my response.

But how does opposing football fans who commit bigoted acts and those Rangers fans who were pictured doing these salutes make me full of hatred?

I despise these people involved as i dont like fact that as i am also in Scotland and support Scottish football that i may be perceived as similar by association by other fans across the globe. That however does not make me full of hatred as you suggest, it only make we want to make people aware that we are not all like that and that this HAS to stop and the current powers that be are doing nothing, or very little, about it.

If you have moved away from football because of "people like me" good riddance i say.

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by TheBlueRaja

Took the bait did you.

You said that i am "full of hatred" and that fans like me are the reason why you gave up football. By definition, i presumed that you were referring to this because i opposed the Nazi Salutes and spoke my mind about it when you perhaps believed it was the "Red Hand Salute" and were referring to everyone else on this forum with the same view as "Ignorant Morons", hence my response.

But how does opposing football fans who commit bigoted acts and those Rangers fans who were pictured doing these salutes make me full of hatred?

I despise these people involved as i dont like fact that as i am also in Scotland and support Scottish football that i may be perceived as similar by association by other fans across the globe. That however does not make me full of hatred as you suggest, it only make we want to make people aware that we are not all like that and that this HAS to stop and the current powers that be are doing nothing, or very little, about it.

If you have moved away from football because of "people like me" good riddance i say.

I think I’ll just ignore the childish ‘took the bait’ comment.

You seem to have a bit of a problem with reading what people write, in post number 6 you say people find it acceptable and in response to me you said I was condoning it. Both of these statements were entirely incorrect.

However, to clarify it for you, of course I think the people doing this are ignorant morons, it’s just that I’ve seen lots of your posts on football and don’t think you’re much better. As clearly spotted by people, the main reason you’re making such a big issue out of it (and tarring an entire club with the same brush by the way) is due to hatred of Rangers. Most of your posts on football are motivated by hatred of some other team. I’m also glad I don’t go to football matches any more if it means avoiding people like you.

[TheBlueRaja]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

You seem to have a bit of a problem with reading what people write, in post number 6 you say people find it acceptable and in response to me you said I was condoning it. Both of these statements were entirely incorrect.

Point taken, my post in 6 was out of order but with your first post i simply misunderstood your point as you didn't clarify it enough.

Originally Posted by fruitbat

However, to clarify it for you, of course I think the people doing this are ignorant morons, it’s just that I’ve seen lots of your posts on football and don’t think you’re much better. As clearly spotted by people, the main reason you’re making such a big issue out of it (and tarring an entire club with the same brush by the way) is due to hatred of Rangers. Most of your posts on football are motivated by hatred of some other team. I’m also glad I don’t go to football matches any more if it means avoiding people like you.

I dislike the old firm, i don't hide that fact but i do justify the reasons for it. I think that football in Scotland would be better off without them and I also think that's its time for more punishing measures to counteract the abuse that some fans think is suitable to portray in the modern game and in the modern age.

You say that most of my posts are motivated by hatred of other teams, i don't think that's the case at all at least not in the context that you put it, i do "hate" Man U and the OF but but not in a physical way, rather i don't like what they stand for or the type of fans they attract, I would call it rivalry and banter.

However that has nothing to do with my reason for this thread being here, for too long we have had to put up with this crap and its about time it stopped, that was the sole purpose of this thread. If you wish to twist it into sounding like this is a personal crusade against rangers i suggest you go having a look around a few football forums in scotland where this is being discussed and notice the rather large majority of posters who are in total agreement that this is being brushed under the carpet whilst Rangers do very little to combat it outwith releasing carefully worded statements.

Rangers football club have been tarred with this brush and what are they doing about it? Nothing...
What are UEFA doing about it? Nothing...
What are the SFA doing about it? Nothing...

Yet you try to insinuate its MY fault for tarring Rangers - please.

When people abroad start to see some of this crap that is spread by the supporters of this club then it starts to reflect badly on every club in Scotland and on Scotland itself. Ranger should have done something, UEFA should have said something, the SFA should have done something - they didnt.