Devolo Homeplugs as a network option?

Copperfaced Jack · 07-10-2007, 12:19

Hi,
Will shortly be getting Bethere ADSL 8 meg installed via a BT line after kicking my unstable VM 20 meg into touch. I want to be able to run two computers off the same magical Interweb connection.
I was originally thinking about getting the main PC wired into the BT/Bethere adsl connection the putting a wireless router to connect the second computer which would be in a bedroom on the first floor about 40 feet away through a combination of brick and plasterboard walls. I want the computer down stairs for general browsing/surfing etc etc and the one upstairs for gaming.
Then I saw somewhere on this forum someone mentioning these:

http://www.devolo.co.uk/uk_EN/produkte/dLAN/index.html

they simply plug into electrical sockets and voila - instant connectivity.
Has anyone got these, or something similar, what is the general opinion on them, are they recommended, and would this be a better bet than a wireless router?
Any opinions, experiences or recommendations gratefully accepted.

07-10-2007, 12:27

used them like them they have there place you still need a router though

TheNorm · 07-10-2007, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

...you still need a router though

Yes, and most of the cheaper routers have wireless capability, but there is nothing to stop you disabling it (for security if nothing else).

If you put the router next to your cable modem, and an output from the router to a homeplug device, then all of the electric sockets in your home become "internet live". This also means that your cable modem and router can be hidden away (mine are on top of a wardbrobe in the bedroom). I toyed with the idea of putting them in the loft, but every so often I have to re-boot the modem; besides, I like looking at the flashing lights.

dragon · 07-10-2007, 12:54

I have a couple of 85mbit/s Zyxel Homeplugs, Great devices only reason i'm not currently using them is I got BT vision last week and it came with a couple of powerline adaptors.

The ones BT supplied are UPA instead of homeplug but they are 200mbit/s ones so i'm using those instead currently.

Not tried using them both on the same ring main yet.

Paddy1 · 07-10-2007, 13:23

I use the netgear 85Mb ones. Have one attached to the router, a 4 port one behind the tv for consoles, one in the bedroom for tivo and a spare that I can plug in anywhere for the laptop. Used to use wireless but I had terrible problems with streaming video to the xbox and these are much better imho.

Plus, as TheNorm says, you can switch off the wireless adapter on your router.

xpod · 07-10-2007, 13:47

Quote:

still need a router though

The ones linked to seem to imply you can connect direct to the modem??
Is that wrong or am i just confused......again

Quote:

Unpack the dLAN 200 AV, plug it in, connect it to the modem, router, set-top box or PC –

I dont use a router as such yet so am just wondering if these wallplugs would somehow work from the modem or indeed the second nic i use for ics......which then goes into a "Switching Hub" thing i have.

I have my sons room,the older girls room and the dinning room wired for ethernet atm, which is all we really need but .....just curious

dragon · 07-10-2007, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpod

The ones linked to seem to imply you can connect direct to the modem??
Is that wrong or am i just confused......again

I dont use a router as such yet so am just wondering if these wallplugs would somehow work from the modem or indeed the second nic i use for ics......which then goes into a "Switching Hub" thing i have.

I have my sons room,the older girls room and the dinning room wired for ethernet atm, which is all we really need but .....just curious

They essentially act as a Path between locations I have one plugged into my ADSL router and another plugged into an 8port switch upstairs which then has

PC/Xbox/server/Voip fone/Bt vision STB connected
The powerline adaptor upstairs donesn't care that there's a switch and several devices connected to it It will just send the data as needed.

But yes you'd need either a router or a pc running ICS to use them unless you were only using them to connect 1 pc to the modem.

TheNorm · 07-10-2007, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

... or a pc running ICS ...

Which would have to be running whenever one of the other computers needed internet access.

How about this router for under Ã‚Â£25 - it specifically states that it works with Virgin Media: http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?...18153&doy=7m10

xpod · 07-10-2007, 14:46

Quote:

They essentially act as a Path between locations I have one plugged into my ADSL router and another plugged into an 8port switch upstairs which then has

PC/Xbox/server/Voip fone/Bt vision STB connected
The powerline adaptor upstairs donesn't care that there's a switch and several devices connected to it It will just send the data as needed.

But yes you'd need either a router or a pc running ICS to use them unless you were only using them to connect 1 pc to the modem.

Ahhh...of course,router just for the extra pc`s....doh.

---------- Post added at 14:46 ---------- Previous post was at 14:03 ----------

Quote:

Which would have to be running whenever one of the other computers needed internet access.

Hence the reason my kids think the spare 1Mb stb connection is great

Our younger children are never on the pc until the evening/weekend and mines always on by then though.
My 20Mb router/firewall/gateway machine not being on is`nt an issue either way though.

Quote:

How about this router for under Ã‚Â£25 - it specifically states that it works with Virgin Media: http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?...18153&doy=7m10

We dont need a router just now but if & when i do buy one i think it will most definetely be a nice Linksys one.

dragon · 07-10-2007, 15:06

Ive just done some testing and found out Homeplug Turbo (85mbit/s) and UPA doesn't co-exist very nicely at all.

I found when the UPA adaptors are talking the Homeplugs seem to effectively stop sending... and their sync rate plummets.

So I have 2 spare homeplug adaptors currently.

Although I'll probably hold onto them since its easier to get additional homeplug adaptors than the UPA ones.

Power consuption of the Homplugs is less according to the spec on the adaptors.

TheNorm · 07-10-2007, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

Ive just done some testing and found out Homeplug Turbo (85mbit/s) and UPA doesn't co-exist very nicely at all....

Your results seem to disagree with the UPA website:

Quote:

What is Ã¢â‚¬Å“coexistenceÃ¢â‚¬Â?
Coexistence is defined as the operation of two or more PLC technologies or applications sharing the same common medium to provide communications services. However, the differing technologies will not communicate between each other.
An example of coexistence is in-premise devices that can recognize that there is an Access service network that is sharing the same power lines medium. The two technologies recognize that the other exists and therefore do not hinder the communications of the other. Instead, through time or frequency domain, the medium is shared by the two technologies.

http://www.upaplc.org/page_viewer.asp?section=FAQ&sid=3

I believe the real-life experiment of dragon, rather than a website written by some advertising executive!

Copperfaced Jack · 07-10-2007, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

used them like them they have there place you still need a router though

Hmmm....I get a Bebox (whatever that is) with the Bethere adsl package;
These are the specs:
* ADSL 2+ enabled
* 4 port 10/100 megs Ethernet switch (1 port reserved for future use)
* 54 megs 802.11 b/g wireless interface
* 1 analog back-up (future use)
* OS Independent (Ethernet)

Thanks for all the quick replies.However, I'm not as tech minded as all of you seem to be and I have no experience of wireless etc having simply used a VM supplied ethernet cable modem and only had one PC.
Now I'm a bit lost.
What would I need to enact the setup described in original post, and would having the upstairs pc connected by homeplug and/or router degrade performance, specifically for gaming?
Or should I go for having the main connection put to the location where I want to do the gaming, and let the kids do their bit of light surfing etc downstairs on a secondary connection.

dragon · 07-10-2007, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copperfaced Jack

Hmmm....I get a Bebox (whatever that is) with the Bethere adsl package;
These are the specs:
* ADSL 2+ enabled
* 4 port 10/100 megs Ethernet switch (1 port reserved for future use)
* 54 megs 802.11 b/g wireless interface
* 1 analog back-up (future use)
* OS Independent (Ethernet)

Thanks for all the quick replies.However, I'm not as tech minded as all of you seem to be and I have no experience of wireless etc having simply used a VM supplied ethernet cable modem and only had one PC.
Now I'm a bit lost.
What would I need to enact the setup described in original post, and would having the upstairs pc connected by homeplug and/or router degrade performance, specifically for gaming?
Or should I go for having the main connection put to the location where I want to do the gaming, and let the kids do their bit of light surfing etc downstairs on a secondary connection.

I have BT broadband with a sync speed of 8128kps down 448kps up my pc is connecting to a voyager 2110 router through a pair of Comtrend UPA adaptors at the moment (i was using my zyxel homeplugs till a few days ago)

I bought the homeplugs because i found wireless unstable for gaming, there are a lot of wireless LANs around and a burst of noise would kill the ping completely and result in a lot of packet loss and jitter.

With a pair powerline adaptors (be that the homeplugs or the Upa ones) i get a ping of about 5ms to the router.

I have little or no errors on my line so I'm able to use Adsl fastpath (interleaving off) which also helps my ping.
See = http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm for what interleaving does and why it affects pings

As a result I can often ping under 20ms to UK based gaming servers (depending on internet traffic conditions and what other people in the house are doing)

I do believe if you have more than 2 adaptors the latency does increase slightly. (probably because there's more traffic on the homeplug link + they'd have to make sure they know which one to send the data to)

Anyway in summery

If your absolutely obsessed with your Ping then you want Interleaving off and direct cat5 wired to your router.

If your not to worried then homeplug should work fine.

I would expect with the added latency of the homeplugs and even with interleaving on you should easily be able to get pings below 60ms to uk servers.

Edit:

These might be worth a look...

http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop...ProductID=3157
Or
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop...ProductID=4744

Not the Devolo ones but still...

Shaun · 07-10-2007, 17:45

Is there really any benefit using these devices over just buying a wireless card/dongle?

dragon · 07-10-2007, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

Is there really any benefit using these devices over just buying a wireless card/dongle?

Yes if your playing games sometimes wireless doesn't cut it. as I said in my last post.