The energy crisis
 

This one stuffs me as it means my bills will almost double 6 months earlier than I had hoped. It will stuff a lot of people tbh

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ne...thing-you-nee/

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

I suspect I'll be needing to update the thread title before too long ... these may be the first to go to the wall thanks to the runaway price of wholesale gas, but they're unlikely to be the last.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

We'll soon be at net zero once no one can afford to turn on the lights and heating.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Its all come at a bad time for me, my (very good) deal with ESB expires in October.

I'm looking at a move to Bulb (Yes, I am aware they are suffering as well) but atm, they look one of the better choices, everyones deals have rocketed.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

I was with Bulb for about 16 months - started off well, then had two large price increases in 12 months; I moved after the 2nd one to Shell (who have since then dropped our DD by £15 per month).

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Same here, I found Bulb to be very good at first, but as you said they increased their prices pretty quickly, so I just moved.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

I left Avro in July and they were due to refund my credit balance of £250 last week. Of course that payment never arrived and when I contacted them on Tuesday they advised I'd receive it by the end of this week. I switched to PFP, who went bust a couple of weeks ago. I have a credit balance of £150 with them :banghead:

I'm now being switched to British Gas as the supplier of last resort. I'm sticking with them as a big brand that hopefully won't go bust anytime soon. It doesn't sound as though many of the challenger brands will be around by the end of winter.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

I’m with “look after my bills” and just switch to Green last month. Luckily I got my credit rebate back from the previous supplier so I’m not out any money. The only decision I have to make now is to cancel my DD? Which I think I will do. I’m not going to get cut off. I’ll take a meter reading in the morning and cancel my DD and await further instructions.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Bulb is still very good for me compared to when I was on Eon.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

are they trying to force a smart meter on you ?

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

No, I don't think they can force one as a supplier of last resort as I've not agreed to one. I'm sure they will be keen to install one and start pestering me at some point though.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Info from OFGEN for those affected.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

If you're eligible, you might be able to claim £140 towards your winter energy bills. Here's a list of suppliers that let you apply for it. The Warm Home Discount...

List of suppliers

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

yeah but if you have to apply you have to have been a customer in July meaning anyone forced to move could well be stuffed with not only higher bills but the loss of this also. I usually get it but I am assuming this year will be a real struggle

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Some of the suppliers have already closed the option to apply for it this year. But I suggest people still apply with their energy company. It's a limited amount of funding they have, so be quick. It's a massive help.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Privatise the profits, nationalise the losses. Capitalism in action.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Last year Avro did not even open their applications until October. I cannot apply till I have a new supplier anyway and there is a chance I may want to jump ship from them anyway. It is a nightmare

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Indeed and then leverage as much debt as possible on them, it's disgusting what we've allowed to happen

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

You'll be hit in the pocket from your future gas and electricity provider as the previous deals are no longer out there. The market is a bit of a mess with UK gas companies disincentivised from storing gas, making the country vulnerable to supply reductions.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

The best deals I found searching would cost me over £600 more a year. And I'm on BG standard variable. 50% rise - no thanks. Before smart metre the gap would have been even bigger. That piece of junk added 30% to leccy bills.
We have a half container of coal, need logs though.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

I'm going to complete the move to Bulb for now.
The first payment they want is ridiculously low, so I'll go with that.

The comparison sites seem to indicate that while they are not strictly the best, the few slightly better ones all seem to be smaller companies.
(So most likely in equal danger of collapsing).

There is no exit fee so I can always move again if I find it advantagous to do so.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

All the emphasis is on gas prices, but electricity was about 5 times more expensive than gas a few weeks ago. And around 40% of the UK's electricity comes from gas.

And they want us to have gas-free homes, and electric cars?

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Bulb might be to big to fail but it's a bit of a gamble - you could find the company nationalised and yourself back on a variable rate at today's prices.
https://inews.co.uk/news/energy-prov...-homes-1211216

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:22 ----------

I'm sure Johnson's hot air will keep us warm through the winter months. ;)

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Variable rates are cheaper than fixed rates atm.

It's all working very well, the private energy market, isn't it?
A good time to cut Universal Credit and increase taxes. Happy Xmas from the Tories plebs!

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

i think that pipe dream just died.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Hence ...
Yep, Ive noticed this on the deals & sites Ive checked.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Well, given the news from BP today our options for powering cars are diminishing. Pedalo anyone? ;)

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Plenty of ESSO, Shell and a few independents around here. I’ll be filling up tomorrow, no worries.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

I’m sure everyone will fill up tomorrow “just in case”.

That’s how runs on banks start.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Fair point, but the point I was making is that BP is not the only supplier and I haven’t heard any similar concerns from their peers.

However, I will pop into Tesco and buy a bulk load of toilet roll too, just in case

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Indeed there’s plenty of suppliers, I just doubt anyone banked on 10% of BPs customers plus any residual stockpiling. If it’s not resolved quickly with increased supply then there will inevitably be a domino effect to other suppliers over time.

The 1999 fuel strikes showed just how precarious the supply chains were.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Lots of people working from home = less cars running to the office & back daily.
100K lorry drivers gone AWOL = far fewer wagons running up & down the motorways.

Result = fuel shortage :D

One of the warmest summers for a while.
Many offices closed due to home working therefore saving on gas & electric.
Shops closing all over as we move to online shopping, another saving of gas & electric.

Result = gas shortage :D


. . . strangely no hosepipe ban for years though?

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

There's a factor why there's a shortage of HGV drivers delivering fuel but I'm not allowed to mention it...

Same reason we have a record number in low paid vacancies in the country, no one wants to do these crappy jobs. We assumed someone else would do them, they did, but no more. Little Britain and its ageing population is going to wither away I'm afraid.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Variable rates are set to go up substantially in October as the Government's price cap is hiked. Anyone landing up on them if their supplier goes to the wall next month gets my sympathy.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

https://www.theguardian.com/business...force-closures

Oh dear oh dear. Care homes warning of closures now from high energy prices. Where’s their entrepreneurial spirit? Do the big six energy providers not take that as payment these days?

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Clickbait from MSN.com, covid has played a bigger part in this.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/g...cold-vgq86thdf

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

It's a whole range of factors but storage seems to be an important factor and helps to explain why we've been relatively badly impacted. If you've got 90 days of gas in the tank then you're in a stronger position than if you have seven days.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

90% of media stuff is clickbait . . . and spreads like oil on water.

As for care homes closing . . are these the same private care homes that have been raking money in hand over fist for the last 20 years or so?

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Well yes, that's my point. These cartels get to squeeze huge profits out then bugger off to leave councils and the Government (either way - the taxpayer) to step in.

---------- Post added at 10:27 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------

Grant Schapps with all the credibility of George Bailey at the Buildings and Loans

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58673567

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Yep, agree with you. It's not just care homes screaming either is it.

The comfortable ride for many has hit the toll roads, the gravy train now leaving platform 6 is empty, and the stage appears to be full of large bosomed ladies singing arias.

Could be worse, you could be a Derby fan :D

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

https://ukerc.ac.uk/news/cost-of-gas-by-default/

So a slight adjustment on the storage figures quoted on the msn article 6% U.K. storage vs 20% for France, Germany & Italy

Whilst nobody could have foreseen the aftershocks that the covid 19 pandemic would cause.
The question does need to be asked why is a government not concerned when one storage facility that held 70% of our reserves is shut down.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Avro customers are being moved to Octopus which scuppers my plans to get the £50 referral off them gits

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Presumably because Matt Hancock’s former landlord didn’t see an investment opportunity in it.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Maybe we should ask why we dont have government storage facilities instead of just private, who are perfectly entitled to shut them down as they see fit.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Because we made the decision to privatise them.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

I made no such decision . . did you? ;)

Anyway, when 3/4 of the UK is owned by foreign companies, what can you expect when things get tough :D

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Well yes indeed. That's the crux of the question why we allow the private sector to extract profits under the guise of fake competition when the state (and thus the taxpayer) is underpinning the entire risk anyway!

I never thought we'd agree on these forums but as Carth, papa and I discussed recently infinite monkey theorem does leave scope for many things however unlikely.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

We were with Avro Energy who are being taken over by Octopus, we were paying £72 per month, we have now been quoted £138.63pm, that is almost double! Shocking considering we live in a small 2 bed bungalow.:(


Does anyone know if I have to wait to be supplied by Octopus or can I switch to another supplier before then?

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Best to wait for for the Octopus switch. Last thing you need is to be dealing with 3 companies ! Unlikely you'll find much cheaper elsewhere, fixed rates tend to be more expensive than variable atm.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Here's what Ofgem says
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/cy/publicat...rs-avro-energy

Unfortunately, I don't think there's going to be any amazing energy deals out there at the moment until wholesale prices fall. Time to buy shares in loft insulation, solar panel and curtain manufacturers.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Too late Mr K, took best deal from Bulb at £107 per month. Even that is £35 per month more.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

In this instance, the culprit was Centrica aka British Gas.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Germany has a large independently owned storage capacity, but their prices are also going up.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

You were close - it’s actually 1.3%… ;)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=%2fb...nesses2019.xls

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Life's not binary old chap. Prices tend to go up over time. The question is the rate by which they go up. Find that and you've made a point.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Igloo Energy, Symbio Energy and Enstroga cease trading https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ne...OuqGZTOvrh-5KI

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Well it's a lot more than inflation, then they've got the 20% increase in their carbon tax to look forward to next year.

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Probably a good time to invest in companies making thermal undies. :D

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

Might open up the fireplace and get the chimney swept . . . I either get affordable heat & light or the environment gets it :D

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

The rates you should be comparing are the increases in the UK and the increases in Germany. That helps in deciding if 90 days' gas storage is helpful in keeping price rises lower or not.

---------- Post added at 18:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

Wood can be free but getting the chimney swept is pricey since that pesky law about not using kids was implemented by our woke MPs. :D

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I got an email from Bulb this week trying to increase my direct debit by about £25 a month and waffling on about protecting my account credit against higher winter energy bills. This despite my account already being about £250 in credit, which is more than twice what I actually spend on electricity per month.

For any house that is lit by LED bulbs and heated by anything other than electricity the old adage that you spend a lot more on electricity in the winter no longer holds true. You certainly do spend more, but the difference is not as big, and the stuff that draws power in your house is likely to be in equal use all year round (your router, your games console, your multi-USB charger station, etc). If you have electric showers and an electric cooker then these are the real biggies and their usage will be the same year round. Actually in our house, running a B&B, those things were more used in the summer than winter.

Anyhoo … I went into my account online and reduced the direct debit back to the minimum they would allow, which is now a mere £10 per month more. I will be keeping a close eye on my credit level with them and if it goes up over the next 2 months I will have to contact them directly and insist they reduce the direct debit further. At the moment I can’t shake the feeling that they are more interested in improving their cash flow than in the health of my account.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Agreed - that's why I left them (I was in credit by £100+ as well).

Went to Shell for the same amount I was on at Bulb (£122 per month, which Bulb had wanted to increase by around £20), and since then, Shell have reduced my DD by £15 (and I get 3% off the price of up to 60 litres of petrol per month).

Re: Avro and Green Cease Trading
 

But they don't have 90 days worth stored, and what if they did?
Did you think I made up the reference to their 20% carbon tax hike?
MOD EDIT - Please provide links to any quotes, as this helps protect CableForum under the "Fair Usage" Policy...

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news...t-media-report

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

When I logged into my Bulb account the other day a message popped up saying they suggest i increase my direct debit from £73 to £93 but I won't as I am around £160 in credit.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

There is no fee to leave bulb.
Shell were another option I looked at.

You can move supplier every 28 days if you want.
So if bulb start getting silly, or expensive, I'll move.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Bulb are rumoured to be the next ones going under so their DDs might be irrelevant. Octopus are said to have their tentacles on it....

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Rumours are just that.

As it stands, Bulb disagree

Also, even if they did, and someone [like Octopus] took over, I could still just move afterwards if necessary.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I’m being moved to Shell. But I’ll wait until we’ve moved before I look elsewhere.

Luckily I was with GOTO until a few weeks ago and left them to go to Green. I was £1200 in credit with GOTO and got it all back. I was only with Green for 4 weeks before they went under.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Your choice might be increasingly limited and prices all very similar and sky high. God bless the free market !

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Well, it’s not ideal but it could just be one price with no recourse or options at all.

If you’re happy with that proposition, then why not just have one price for every commodity?

Forget brands, just tins with white labels that simply say “soup” on them, no need for Heinz, Baxter’s or Batchelors or Tesco’s own.

Let’s just have make and model of car………and call it a Lada for old times sake.

Choice is overrated, we just need one of everything, that’ll be much simpler.

Drink vodka, be happy.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Because some products are genuinely best to the free market. But there has to be attributes of an actually free market with a large number of suppliers and genuine choice throughout the supply chains. Low barriers to entry for new suppliers and little consequences if one fails.

The same isn’t true of the energy market and they’re all relying on the taxpayer to underwrite failure. Unlike a distillery making a diverse range of Vodka brands.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I think you may be over simplifying/drinking too much vodka ;) But as far as electric/gas is concerned it's all very similar out of the pipes/wires. Why you pay different depending on which area of the country you're in or which company is bizarre. The OFGEM price cap does effectively mean most will now pay paying very similar high prices, with choice getting restricted by the day.

Go on I'll say it. Nationalise it, with the same price for everyone rich or poor, Shetlands or Cornwall, paying the same rates. The railways are going that way so why not energy? Tragedy of the current system is that the poorest with pre-payment meters pay most. Dickens would have had a field day...

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I think you’re expecting a bit too much in the way of reasoning and logical thought here. Slogans are as much as some people can cope with.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

The barriers to entry for the energy have been set too low such that anyone can set up in business with a laughable number of failures pre the current energy market crisis. The net result is higher prices as energy customers have to pay a levy to sort out the admin when these companies fail.

I honestly don't think six is a bad number of companies to have in the market. And new entrants like Octopus and First Energy (acquired by Shell) have demonstrated that it is possible to succeed against the incumbents.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I'm on a pre pay meter and I'm not paying the most here, not by a long shot, I did ask them to install a normal meter just before covid struck but the installer made up some cock and ball story about why he couldn't be bothered to do it. I get the odd letter saying I could save a fiver a month if I re booked but I think sod 'em I'd rather change providers than be messed about by them again

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

There’s nothing bizarre about it. A portion of your bill is paid by your service provider to your local distribution network operating company. They set their own costs which reflect various factors including their network topography. My DNO has particularly high costs because it covers the Scottish highlands. Some of the smallest electricity supply companies won’t sign up customers in my postcode for that reason. I suspect these are the same ones that have tried to keep their costs so low that they’ve now collapsed.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

In an alternate reality, a socialist dystopian one of course, we could all still be on dial-up internet, no hfc, no fibre etc.

The state can provide all your communication needs, and we say you will get 55kps. And like it.

I am open to a discussion on certain sectors being tighter regulated (not necessarily nationalised)

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Do they? Or is that them just paying off arrears?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

yes they do. The rates are higher (in most circumstances)

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

And your evidence is.......

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Well it also says...

Link

Difficult for me to use my own figures as my supplier(SSE) has made a right mess of them. I have 4 different rates mentioned for my electric for the past 6 months, the lowest of which is on the smart meter device. That hasn't changed overnight, although the standing charge has. If I was on PAYG, that would be the cheapest option by far. Whether that cheap rate ends up being the one used on bills is another matter.
I changed from PAYG to credit a matter of months ago. The PAYG rate(£17.99) was lower than the credit rate(£18.55) used. Might've been a bad idea to change from PAYG, as it looks like I would still be paying the cheap £17.99KWh rate.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Would unregulated capitalism provide fibre to everyone, or just cream off the profitable bits waiting for the state to subsidise the rest to the tune of billions? And when the state does where do the profits go? Where’s the genuine competition for end users?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I went to bed paying 12p per kwh for electricity and 2.6p per kwh for gas.

I got up today paying 22p per kwh for electricity and 4.4p per kwh for gas.

Plus the standing charges of course.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Wow!

I currently (until June 22) pay 16.467p per kWh for electricity & 3.182p per kWh for gas (plus standing charges).

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I think the regulated PAYG rates have gone up significantly today.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

When the wholesale price of gas has done this:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...6&d=1633080410

Many customers on fixed price deals and the rest with a price cap make suppliers business models obsolete overnight. There's speculation that the next one to go under may be too big for the remaining ones to absorb their customers.

Attachment 29266

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

You'd think that with all the benefits that Double/Triple Glazing, Loft Insulation and Cavity Wall Insulation bring to homes, gas usage would be falling like a brick . . more so given the newer power generating technologies in place (wind turbines, solar power), so who's using it all?

Is the domestic customer paying the price for ever expanding business usage?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

No…

https://assets.publishing.service.go...lectricity.pdf

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Anybody would think this is being masterminded.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1597753302

:erm:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Was just a thought (retired, too much time etc) that maybe the rapid automation of production/manufacturing processes was leading to us chasing our tails ;)

edit: aaah yes, gas flow diverted to Asia, just in time for the Christmas rush in cheap tat

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Those that can least afford to pay, quite often on pre payment meters, pay more. Aren't we a nice society ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58746953

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

It's food for thought on the levelling-up debate.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

All the articles on the price cap always refer to households with 'average' energy use.

What is the definition of "average use" - how many actual KWH ?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Your question got me wondering what the answer was. So far I have found this explanation but have to admit my brain is hurting trying to work out what relevance it has in real life situations as to my way of thinking there are far too many variables.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...ology-note.pdf

I am sure many people use comparison sites, I use the MSE comparison site which uses my actual yearly usage to provide a more errr accurate guesstimation of what it would cost between the different suppliers. I refuse to class myself as part of an average family unit.:D

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I simply want to know what they base it on, so I can see how far above average my useage is, and therefore calculate roughly the maximum I should be paying.

That pdf seem to state ;


---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:16 ----------

If they are true, then my electricity use is about average (except my Standard/E7 split, I use more Day, less Night). My Gas usage is definitely over average.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

That's what I found. I don't believe that an 'average usage' is anything more than an average calculation. The average can only reflect the parameters of the information gathered...real life has to many variations to allow such a calculation to be in any way accurate for any specific household .

OK my brain is complaining I have feeling that the twaddle I've just posted is beyoung understanding. :D, so I'm going to lie down in a dark room and just be glad I don't need to revisit this conundrum ever, ever again. :)

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

It's global warming it makes your house colder.