Cable Forum - Coronavirus

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Paul	10-05-2021 18:43

Re: Coronavirus

From May 17th ;

* People can meet in groups of up to 30 outdoors
* Six people or two households can meet indoors, with overnight stays allowed
* Up to 30 people can attend weddings, receptions and other life events
* Number of people who can attend a funeral no longer capped, but determined by the size of venue
* Up to 30 allowed to attend a support group or parent-and-child group (not counting under fives)
* Care home residents allowed up to five named visitors, and more freedom for visits out of the home

Social distancing with close family and friends will be a matter of personal judgement.

(But people are asked to remain cautious around close contact, like hugging).

Pierre

10-05-2021 23:38

Re: Coronavirus

https://lockdownsceptics.org/2021/05...ectly-charged/

Law is order, and good law is good order.

Unless it is made on the hoof and implemented by wombles

papa smurf

11-05-2021 08:39

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36079227)

https://lockdownsceptics.org/2021/05...ectly-charged/

Law is order, and good law is good order.

Unless it is made on the hoof and implemented by wombles

Not even for serious offences like sitting on a park bench :shrug:

Maggy

11-05-2021 08:51

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36079238)

Not even for serious offences like sitting on a park bench :shrug:

I've been sitting on benches on the seafront all through all lockdowns, drinking my take away coffee or a can of coffee or flask of tea. Had no hassle off anyone.;)

jonbxx

11-05-2021 08:58

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36079227)

https://lockdownsceptics.org/2021/05...ectly-charged/

Law is order, and good law is good order.

Unless it is made on the hoof and implemented by wombles

It will be interesting to see how many people were successfully charged under the Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020 which were the lockdown regulations as opposed to the Coronavirus Act 2020 which covered the refusal of potentially infectious people to cooperate with the police or health officials.

Of course, a website called 'Lockdown Sceptics' would never confuse the two...

1andrew1

11-05-2021 21:22

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36079239)

I've been sitting on benches on the seafront all through all lockdowns, drinking my take away coffee or a can of coffee or flask of tea. Had no hassle off anyone.;)

In my area, the benches were sealed off with black and yellow tape in the first lockdown.

Sephiroth

11-05-2021 22:07

Re: Coronavirus

In Wokingham Waitrose, the toilets are still blocked off -"Social Distancing", they told me.

In every other Waitrose (there are 5 within 7 miles radius of Winnersh), all toilets open.

The Wokingham Medical Centre is completely barriered off.

But the new Peach Place is vibrant, tables and chairs occupied with coffee/tea drinkers and smoked salmon roll munchers (sold by Gails).

Taf	12-05-2021 16:39

Re: Coronavirus

"This spike is related to international travel, particularly with people returning to Bolton from India.

The cases are now in the community and it seems to be located around the south and south-west parts of the town.

Interestingly, the cases are very much stacked in those under the age of 25.

There were 721 cases reported yesterday in those aged five to 25.

Part of this is because all the school children are testing twice a week, but it is very much present in that younger age group."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ester-57075618

papa smurf

12-05-2021 17:19

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36079294)

Why are people allowed to travel to India :shrug:

heero_yuy

12-05-2021 17:32

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36079297)

Why are people allowed to travel to India :shrug:

Perhaps even more important, why are they allowed to come back in? :dozey:

Taf	12-05-2021 18:29

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36079297)

Why are people allowed to travel to India :shrug:

30 flights a week were coming from India, with more coming from Pakistan and Bangladesh.

India had banned all flights from the UK four months earlier.

Quote:

Public Health England shows that between 25 March and 7 April, 3,345 arrivals from India were registered in UK border travel data. Of those 161 - or 4.8% - tested positive for Covid-19 after a PCR test.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56806103

Mad Max

12-05-2021 20:02

Re: Coronavirus

Absolute madness, no one should be flying into the UK from India.

1andrew1

12-05-2021 20:48

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36079297)

Why are people allowed to travel to India :shrug:

If you buy the right wallpaper for a friend, the world's your lobster. ;)

papa smurf

12-05-2021 20:50

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36079311)

If you buy the right wallpaper for a friend, the world's your lobster. ;)

How far can i get on 4 rolls of woodchip.

Hugh	12-05-2021 20:57

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36079311)

If you buy the right wallpaper for a friend, the world's your lobster. ;)

Other arthropods/molluscs are available… ;)

1andrew1

12-05-2021 23:48

Re: Coronavirus

An interesting way to encourage vaccine uptake is being pursued in Ohio.

Quote:

Two weeks from tonight on May 26th, we will announce a winner of a separate drawing for adults who have received at least their first dose of the vaccine. This announcement will occur each Wednesday for five weeks, and the winner each Wednesday will receive one million dollars.

https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/st...97174014332929

Carth

13-05-2021 11:22

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36079322)

An interesting way to encourage vaccine uptake is being pursued in Ohio.

https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/st...97174014332929

LMAO . . . I bet it won't be some poor poverty stricken down & out that 'wins' it ;)

. . . on a somewhat related note though, the wife and I have both had our second jabs and this week won £10 on the postcode lottery, so maybe there's something in it :D

Mad Max

13-05-2021 16:05

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36079322)

An interesting way to encourage vaccine uptake is being pursued in Ohio.

https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/st...97174014332929

They should try this in Bolton.

Mr K	14-05-2021 17:46

Re: Coronavirus

We should just barricade the whole of Lancashire off to contain this new variant.
Should have done years ago with that county anyway imo ;)

jfman

14-05-2021 18:04

Re: Coronavirus

Boris at 5pm on a Friday. Has to be good.

Mr K	14-05-2021 18:23

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36079446)

Boris at 5pm on a Friday. Has to be good.

I don't know, Crackerjack was better.

papa smurf

14-05-2021 18:45

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36079448)

I don't know, Crackerjack was better.

And you got a pencil;)

Mad Max

14-05-2021 19:18

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36079452)

And you got a pencil;)

Thing is, was there lead in it.....;)

joglynne

14-05-2021 19:33

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36079443)

We should just barricade the whole of Lancashire off to contain this new variant.
Should have done years ago with that county anyway imo ;)

Bolton is not in Lancashire.

Quote:

Bolton was made part of Greater Manchester under the Local Government Act in 1974, where previously it had been considered a part of Lancashire — a county thought to have been founded in the 12th century.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news...d-sign-debate/

spiderplant

14-05-2021 20:04

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 36079456)

Bolton is not in Lancashire.

Deep down you know it is. The whole thing is ridiculous now. You drive out of Preston and see a sign that says "Welcome to Lancashire". So where was I a minute ago?

joglynne

14-05-2021 20:28

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36079462)

Deep down you know it is. The whole thing is ridiculous now. You drive out of Preston and see a sign that says "Welcome to Lancashire". So where was I a minute ago?

<< Jo grins and nods her head, road signage can be very confusing>>

I live south of Manchester and when we moved here 50 odd years ago we lived in Lancashire. About 30 years ago Greater Manchester was formed. Our Bank still refuses to acknowledge the change in our address and to this day insists that we still live in Lancashire and refuses to use Gtr Manchester in correspondence.

I just hope that Lancashire doesn't take offence at being put behind Mr K's barricade due to his prejudice to those of us that live on the friendlier side of the Pennines. :D :D :D

1andrew1

14-05-2021 20:56

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36079297)

Why are people allowed to travel to India :shrug:

Quote:

For the decision to delay putting India on the red list of countries, from which travel is heavily limited, and the decision to implement this not immediately but with a gap of just over three days - during which thousands of travellers from India entered the country amid a surge of demand for flights - happened in the shadow of one of the biggest of all political and economic stories of recent decades: Brexit...

Sealing a deal, even a provisional one, with one of the world's fastest growing and dynamic economies, has long been a goal for the prime minister.

The fact that he might be able to declare victory in the battle over Scotch, and the tantalising prospect of agreeing a deal before the EU - which is also in parallel trade discussions with India - only added to the allure.

All of which is why Mr Johnson had been so determined to make India the destination for his first major foreign visit as prime minister. The trip had originally been slated for January, but was delayed as the UK faced a sharp increase in COVID cases.

It was rearranged for late April, with Mr Johnson due to fly out for meetings and negotiations on April 25.

The working plan was that Mr Johnson would be able to announce that early discussions were now under way about a deal - and that formal negotiations would begin in the autumn. There would be talk of more visas for Indian migrants and of resolving the long-standing impasse on Scotch...

Even so, if the Indian variant establishes itself as the dominant strain in the UK, jeopardising the sacrifices and suffering during a third period of lockdown, the prime minister will come under increased scrutiny to answer why the decision was left so late to impose restrictions on travel from India, why travellers were given an extra three and a half days to come to the UK and why the rationale on which country is on or off these travel lists remains so murky.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...riant-12306393

Sephiroth

14-05-2021 21:16

Re: Coronavirus

I can't see anyone disagreeing with the thrust of the Sky News article.

Mr K	14-05-2021 21:33

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 36079464)

Friendly?! I've been to Barnoldswick, lucky to escape alive...
Still, all in jest, Lancashire G Manchester, all the same, usually wet and grim and full of plague ;)
However I will gladly unite with my NW bretheren against the southern softies, come the revolution... :)

GrimUpNorth

14-05-2021 21:39

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 36079464)

<< Jo grins and nods her head, road signage can be very confusing>>

I live south of Manchester and when we moved here 50 odd years ago we lived in Lancashire. About 30 years ago Greater Manchester was formed. Our Bank still refuses to acknowledge the change in our address and to this day insists that we still live in Lancashire and refuses to use Gtr Manchester in correspondence.

I just hope that Lancashire doesn't take offence at being put behind Mr K's barricade due to his prejudice to those of us that live on the friendlier side of the Pennines. :D :D :D

I used to have some respect for your posts :shocked: :) :D.

Hugh	14-05-2021 22:11

Re: Coronavirus

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...se-13-may-2021

SAGE have rushed out minutes of yesterday's meeting, warning of the danger posed by India's B.1.617.2 variant. As it usually takes several days for minutes to appear online, this looks like an effort to speak out before Monday's lifting of restrictions.

Their recommendation was to keep local restrictions in place where the B.1.617.2 variant has taken hold to buy time, and ramp up vaccination in and around those areas "as soon as possible".

But the PM doesn't believe "present evidence" shows any need to delay Monday's reopening.

There's no local measures, just a suggestion for people in those areas to "think twice".

And instead of surge vaccination, accelerating second doses for over 50s.

@_johnbye

Mr K	14-05-2021 22:27

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36079472)

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...se-13-may-2021

SAGE have rushed out minutes of yesterday's meeting, warning of the danger posed by India's B.1.617.2 variant. As it usually takes several days for minutes to appear online, this looks like an effort to speak out before Monday's lifting of restrictions.

Their recommendation was to keep local restrictions in place where the B.1.617.2 variant has taken hold to buy time, and ramp up vaccination in and around those areas "as soon as possible".

But the PM doesn't believe "present evidence" shows any need to delay Monday's reopening.

There's no local measures, just a suggestion for people in those areas to "think twice".

And instead of surge vaccination, accelerating second doses for over 50s.

@_johnbye

Asking people to do 'thinking' is a big ask.

1andrew1

14-05-2021 23:08

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36079472)

Getting in before the Sunday papers and Sunday political shows is a shrewd move. ;)

Pierre

15-05-2021 00:03

Re: Coronavirus

Got to keep the fear going, India’s gonna get you. Stay scared! Stay home.

nomadking

15-05-2021 00:07

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36079478)

Got to keep the fear going, India’s gonna get you. Stay scared! Stay home.

Try telling that to the 4 people who have died from it, so far.

1andrew1

15-05-2021 00:52

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36079467)

I can't see anyone disagreeing with the thrust of the Sky News article.

You can see how sorely tempting it would be from BoJo's perspective. Just before the elections he could demonstrate a Brexit trade benefit, show how the UK has batted for Scotland and put one over on the EU.

Mad Max

15-05-2021 00:54

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36079479)

Try telling that to the 4 people who have died from it, so far.

Have the 127K, or thereabouts, all actually died from Covid? I know that they say that Covid is mentioned on the death certificates, but was that the actual cause?

Jaymoss

15-05-2021 01:03

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36079482)

Have the 127K, or thereabouts, all actually died from Covid? I know that they say that Covid is mentioned on the death certificates, but was that the actual cause?

Trust the ONS data as that is based on how the doctor wrote the cause of death and not the governments figures of died within 28 days of a positive post and that still puts the deaths well above 100K

Interesting read
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n352

There is also those who died outside the 28 days and had pre existing conditions that were made considerably worse by covid leading to a premature death had they never had covid

jfman

15-05-2021 01:11

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36079478)

Got to keep the fear going, India’s gonna get you. Stay scared! Stay home.

Keeps the covid deniers grifting in the papers. A consistent employment opportunity.

Pierre

15-05-2021 07:45

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36079479)

Try telling that to the 4 people who have died from it, so far.

I can’t, they’re dead and I didn’t know them anyway, but whether it was 4 or 40 it’s still no reason not to continue opening up as planned.

papa smurf

15-05-2021 07:48

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36079478)

Got to keep the fear going, India’s gonna get you. Stay scared! Stay home.

Circle the waggons the injuns is a coming :ghugs:

Jaymoss

15-05-2021 09:54

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36079488)

Circle the waggons the injuns is a coming :ghugs:

The R number is rising. Least this will be a good test for the vaccines. Lets hope they really are effective

papa smurf

15-05-2021 10:09

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36079490)

The R number is rising. Least this will be a good test for the vaccines. Lets hope they really are effective

I think it's all a plot to ruin my 65th birthday which is on 22 June, the day after lifting of restrictions.
i don't foresee any major problems as i'm having the party at the gun club.

jfman

15-05-2021 10:54

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36079490)

The R number is rising. Least this will be a good test for the vaccines. Lets hope they really are effective

I'm interested in the rationale to reduce the period from 12 to 8 weeks between vaccination when previously the logic was it makes more sense to give more people some kind of vaccine.

Pierre

15-05-2021 11:03

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36079496)

I'm interested in the rationale to reduce the period from 12 to 8 weeks between vaccination when previously the logic was it makes more sense to give more people some kind of vaccine.

Quoting “logic” and “rationale” when trying fathom the governments actions during this pandemic is the most contradictory of contradictions

1andrew1

15-05-2021 11:17

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36079496)

I'm interested in the rationale to reduce the period from 12 to 8 weeks between vaccination when previously the logic was it makes more sense to give more people some kind of vaccine.

If there's a correlation between having one injection and voting for the political party you associate with that injection, then I can see the political rationale for a wider roll-out reduces post election.

nomadking

15-05-2021 11:22

Re: Coronavirus

The R number is distorted by the fact that the main group spreading this new variant, is also one of the groups [selfishly] insisting on not getting vaccinated or sticking to any rules. The amount of spreading will inevitably be higher amongst such groups, and doesn't represent the population as a whole.

Carth

15-05-2021 12:06

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36079499)

:clap: :clap: :clap:

*awaits posts defending the indefensible - ie 'incapable of being justified or excused'

spiderplant

15-05-2021 13:03

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36079496)

I'm interested in the rationale to reduce the period from 12 to 8 weeks between vaccination when previously the logic was it makes more sense to give more people some kind of vaccine.

The difference in efficacy between one and two doses is turning out to be wider in real-life than it was in trials (they only used a 3 week gap in trials). Most 40-somethings have now had their first dose, so I presume they have calculated giving the over-50s their second dose early is more beneficial than starting on the 30-somethings.

This is despite a 12-week gap probably being more effective than an 8-week one. I suspect dose #3 will be along fairly soon after to make up the difference.

Chris

15-05-2021 15:15

Re: Coronavirus

Stop it, you’re spoiling his conspiracy theory :D

jfman

15-05-2021 15:26

Re: Coronavirus

I keep forgetting the Government is always right, even when it contradicts itself. ;)

Chris

15-05-2021 16:28

Re: Coronavirus

As I’ve said before ... following the science is a real kicker, isn’t it ...

jfman

15-05-2021 16:32

Re: Coronavirus

Easier to do when they're on payroll.

Chris

15-05-2021 16:40

Re: Coronavirus

Actually, rather harder in an emerging situation when risk and reward are hard to calculate and unlikely to be static. The 12-week policy is by now self evidently the right thing to have done at the time. I see no reason to think the policy formation process is suddenly malfunctioning now. I get that really messes with your “Boris Bad” world view, but facts are facts, and the UK’s vaccination policy is still looking sound, after almost 6 months intense operation.

jfman

15-05-2021 16:43

Re: Coronavirus

It's not a "Boris bad" world view - the only thing self evident is that they are cherry picking "the science" to suit their needs.

Whether the UK vaccination policy is a success or otherwise remains to be seen, as Boris himself acknowledges the significant reduction in cases, hospitalisations and deaths are largely attributable to lockdown.

60 million Pfizer vaccines for the Autumn doesn't sound like a massive vote of confidence in the existing strategy.

The 17 day delay in redlisting India (compared to Pakistan) is presumably another success story for the Government.

Hugh	15-05-2021 17:00

Re: Coronavirus

Good science - re-evaluating how you do things when you have more real world information, but in the mean time, doing the best you can with what you have.

nomadking

15-05-2021 17:02

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36079517)

It's not a "Boris bad" world view - the only thing self evident is that they are cherry picking "the science" to suit their needs.

Whether the UK vaccination policy is a success or otherwise remains to be seen, as Boris himself acknowledges the significant reduction in cases, hospitalisations and deaths are largely attributable to lockdown.

60 million Pfizer vaccines for the Autumn doesn't sound like a massive vote of confidence in the existing strategy.

The 17 day delay in redlisting India (compared to Pakistan) is presumably another success story for the Government.

It couldn't possibly be because a new variant might pop up that the current vaccines are ineffective against? No different to seasonal flu. I

jfman

15-05-2021 17:22

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36079518)

Good science - re-evaluating how you do things when you have more real world information, but in the mean time, doing the best you can with what you have.

Pure coincidence that it was the most politically expedient I guess.

1andrew1

15-05-2021 20:02

Re: Coronavirus

Govt source tells Sunday Times: “It’s very clear that we should have closed the border to India earlier and that Boris did not do so because he didn’t want to offend Modi.” 20,000+ allowed to enter UK from India in an attempt to help encourage a trade deal.
https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/stat...15797231230984

Sephiroth

15-05-2021 20:57

Re: Coronavirus

It'll be interesting to see how Boris wriggles out of the bleedin' obvious.

Itshim

15-05-2021 21:18

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36079529)

It'll be interesting to see how Boris wriggles out of the bleedin' obvious.

Perhaps we should block off Bolton.:erm:

1andrew1

15-05-2021 21:23

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36079529)

It'll be interesting to see how Boris wriggles out of the bleedin' obvious.

He's rightly acquired the Teflon Tory nickname so will doubtless shrug it off. For now, the successful vaccine roll-out gives him strong immunity against findings of corruption and cock-ups.

Sephiroth

15-05-2021 21:33

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36079535)

He's rightly acquired the Teflon Tory nickname so will doubtless shrug it off. For now, the successful vaccine roll-out gives him strong immunity against findings of corruption and cock-ups.

The feeling in my gut is that shrugging it off won't wash with the public, particularly if June 21 doesn't happen.

The outcry and onslaught will be serious in nature.

Even if he came clean and pleaded that he had to balance the economy against public health, the "partnership" with India is no big deal in this context.

I'm going to sound out whether or not the senior Tories are going to put up with this.

Hugh	15-05-2021 21:47

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36079533)

Perhaps we should block off Bolton.:erm:

That ship has sailed…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57109660

Quote:

the Indian variant was now in most regions of the UK, with the possible exception of Yorkshire and Humber and north-east England.

More than 30% of cases are in London, followed by 25% in north-west England, 12% in eastern England, 10% in the East Midlands and 8% in the South East, PHE said.

Pierre

15-05-2021 23:21

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36079518)

Good science - re-evaluating how you do things when you have more real world information, but in the mean time, doing the best you can with what you have.

Indeed, with the likes of coronavirus and climate change. I have no issue in following science. I do have a problem in following “the” science. As though it is a definitive proposition. If

Carth

15-05-2021 23:42

Re: Coronavirus

erm . . these '20,000+ allowed to enter UK from India' . . were they allowed to board in India, land in the UK, and then wander off wherever they wanted without any kind of testing or isolation period?

Serious question, because I've got absolutely no idea what the heck is happening anymore with 'International Travel' (or pubs, swimming baths, cinemas, HMRC, SNP, The Illuminati, and the price of coffee in Starbucks etc etc) :rolleyes:

1andrew1

16-05-2021 00:18

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36079536)

His popularity might be dented if 21st June is postponed but he delivered in the recent elections so he's secure in his role unless some of the other scandals hit home.

Michael Gove will just have to content himself by pitching his skills as a subject matter expert to Knives Out 2. :D

---------- Post added 16-05-2021 at 00:18 ---------- Previous post was 15-05-2021 at 23:54 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36079545)

Quote:

Alarming reports of the spread of a new highly infectious variant of Covid on the Indian subcontinent first emerged early last month.

The Government acted by adding Pakistan and Bangladesh – India’s direct neighbours – to its "red list" on April 2, barring foreign travellers and forcing 10-day hotel quarantines on returning UK citizens.

The decision led to concerns among epidemiologists, who questioned why India was not included.

Health officials had started to detect an increase in the arrival of Covid cases from India. Public Health England (PHE) data now shows that of the 3,345 people arriving from India between March 25 and April 7, 4.8 per cent tested positive, compared to 0.1 per cent of people in England...

With India not on the “red list”, all but a handful of these travellers would have been allowed to leave the airport and travel home, as well as being asked to self isolate.

Meanwhile, Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister, was determined to press ahead with a planned visit to India on April 25.

The plan was that he would be able to announce that early discussions were now under way over a new trade deal. But as more and more data from India began to ring alarm bells, he came under pressure to call off the trip. Downing Street eventually pulled the plug on April 19, on the same day Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, told the House of Commons that India would also be added to the red list – but only from 4am on April 23.

This was despite Downing Street having briefed journalists when the scheme was first unveiled that countries could be added "at a few hours' notice".

The result of the three-day delay was inevitable. Demand for flights between India and the UK rocketed amid a “desperate frenzy'” as families tried to beat the deadline and avoid having to quarantine in a hotel. Thousands of extra passengers travelled into Britain from the subcontinent.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-hold-britain/

TheDaddy

16-05-2021 00:20

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36079527)

I'm not sure I buy this, it'd be an incredibly callous individual to risk so many lives just to look good announcing a trade deal

1andrew1

16-05-2021 00:34

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36079554)

I'm not sure I buy this, it'd be an incredibly callous individual to risk so many lives just to look good announcing a trade deal

I'm sure everyone wishes it were wrong but Sky, Telegraph, The Times are all stating it. No one has come up with another reason and experts interviewed on other media have suggested it is the case as well.

Don't forget, it was just before local elections and a successful trade deal would also address the 150% tariffs and 28 differing state rules in exporting spirits to India. If resolved, this could put a dampner on Scottish independence.

Quote:

Securing improved market access to India is the [Scottish Whisky] Association's number one trade priority

India sees sales of more than 50m bottles of whisky every year, yet Scotch Whisky accounts for just 2% of the market. This is partly due to the 150% tariff applied by the Government of India, but the country’s federal structure also complicates the market for the industry with responsibility for alcohol devolved to individual states in India, creating in effect 28 separate markets each with differing regulations, taxes and restrictions

https://www.scotch-whisky.org.uk/ins...ational-trade/

TheDaddy

16-05-2021 01:47

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36079555)

If it's true I hope he and the public aren't allowed to forget the casual disregard he has for them, I keep hearing we aren't interested in the racketeering currently masquerading as governance so I wonder if we'll be as keen to forgive him this

1andrew1

16-05-2021 10:20

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36079562)

What happens on 21st June will be interesting.

As well as treating India differently from Bangladesh and Pakistan despite a worse outbreak, the government gave everyone four day's notice and did not implement the ban immediately. One bad decision may be successfully pushed back on but two decisions are harder.

Carth

16-05-2021 10:35

Re: Coronavirus

I have a feeling that IF restrictions aren't eased, there's going to be a hell of a lot of people who simply don't bother following the rules anymore.

Any rules.

Always been a good idea not to keep animals in cages, turns them nasty eventually.

Anarchy in the UK ;)

Hom3r

16-05-2021 10:53

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36079577)

I have a feeling that IF restrictions aren't eased, there's going to be a hell of a lot of people who simply don't bother following the rules any more.

Any rules.

Always been a good idea not to keep animals in cages, turns them nasty eventually.

Anarchy in the UK ;)

People haven't followed the rules since the start.

I still see Covidiots wearing masks under the nose, despite the tanoy announcements every 5 minutes (This includes staff).

The biggest mistake made was to give people the power of exemption without any proof needed nor allow staff to challenge because these Covidiots can cry discrimination.

They should have simply said no mask no entry no excuses no exemptions.

Jaymoss

16-05-2021 11:02

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 36079582)

They should have simply said no mask no entry no excuses no exemptions.

but then that discriminates against those with a legit reason

papa smurf

16-05-2021 11:04

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36079577)

I have a feeling that IF restrictions aren't eased, there's going to be a hell of a lot of people who simply don't bother following the rules anymore.

Any rules.

Always been a good idea not to keep animals in cages, turns them nasty eventually.

Anarchy in the UK ;)

This is the feeling in my family, after 21 June we are done with restrictions enough is enough.

OLD BOY

16-05-2021 11:28

Re: Coronavirus

Same here. The media keeps emphasising the fact that the Indian variant increases the infection rate, but they conveniently ignore the fact that most of the population of this country have been inoculated. The vast majority of those who haven’t are not even in the ‘at risk’ groups.

If people continue to be taken in by the apocalyptic headlines without taking account of the reality, they will never argue for their freedom back.

The virus is now under control and there is no reason to postpone the termination of restrictions on 21 June. The data speaks for itself, and that’s what people should be looking at. The number of hospital admissions due to Covid remains flat, and while that continues, there is no cause for alarm.

spiderplant

16-05-2021 11:29

Re: Coronavirus

So who's going out for an Indian tomorrow? ;)

Hugh	16-05-2021 11:36

Re: Coronavirus

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36079593)

Same here. The media keeps emphasising the fact that the Indian variant increases the infection rate, but they conveniently ignore the fact that most of the population of this country have been inoculated. The vast majority of those who haven’t are not even in the ‘at risk’ groups.

If people continue to be taken in by the apocalyptic headlines without taking account of the reality, they will never argue for their freedom back.

The virus is now under control and there is no reason to postpone the termination of restrictions on 21 June. The data speaks for itself, and that’s what people should be looking at. The number of hospital admissions due to Covid remains flat, and while that continues, there is no cause for alarm.

is there an echo in here?

You, in September last year…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...s#post36050275

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36050275)

Hospital admissions remain very low. The virus passing through the younger generation is to be welcomed as this will not generate a lot of increased deaths. We do need to protect those who are vulnerable though.

What is worrying is the increased number of cases in care homes. We still need to step up there.

---------- Post added at 17:49 ---------- Previous post was at 17:42 ----------

Nice to see you almost admitting that herd immunity is the only practical way of defeating this virus apart from your 'lockdown for as long as its necessary' solution.

The easing of restrictions is having the inevitable consequence, which we are already detecting amongst young people. Where this ends, I agree, depends on the extent to which herd immunity has now been achieved.

Also in September (you may wish to give up on predictions…)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36048805)

Well, the number of hospital admissions remains low as well. I agree that once in hospital with Covid, they are better able to treat you than before, but that's not impacting significantly on the low number of deaths as the fact remains that less patients are actually being treated in hospital.

We may not get that second wave, or if we do, it may well be minor compared to what Spain and France are experiencing. Presumably, given what was said about the first peak, that's because the virus had done its worst already. Those who locked down earlier are now reaping the cost of that with this second wave.

This is why it is far too early to criticise the government for the later lockdown. All some other EU countries have done is to prolong the agony. We may yet see other countries overtaking us in terms of the number Covid deaths. Also bear in mind that each country compiles its figures in a different way. That needs ironing out as well before we start agonising over whether this country got it right.

---------- Post added at 13:46 ---------- Previous post was at 13:42 ----------

The medical establishment is not always right! Just keep an eye on the important numbers, which tell you all you need to know. I would have thought that if we were getting a substantial second wave, we'd know about it by now.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1621162296

Carth

16-05-2021 11:37

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36079594)

So who's going out for an Indian tomorrow? ;)

It used to be skinheads many years ago, no idea who does it now :p:

Mad Max

16-05-2021 12:22

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 36079582)

People haven't followed the rules since the start.

I still see Covidiots wearing masks under the nose, despite the tanoy announcements every 5 minutes (This includes staff).

The biggest mistake made was to give people the power of exemption without any proof needed nor allow staff to challenge because these Covidiots can cry discrimination.

They should have simply said no mask no entry no excuses no exemptions.

You should have added some, to the bit in bold. Lots of people have followed the rules.

OLD BOY

16-05-2021 12:49

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36079597)

is there an echo in here?

You, in September last year…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...s#post36050275

Also in September (you may wish to give up on predictions…)

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1621162296

Yes, but what changed everything was the Kent variant, remember? Although the Kent variant was known at the time, it was not appreciated that it had such a high infection rate. That was why the government had no choice other than change tack.

What is different this time is that the vaccine has now been rolled out to the most vulnerable age groups and to those who are clinically vulnerable due to their state of health. So although the Indian variant may infect more people, the vaccine will prevent serious illness and hospitalisation in the vast majority of cases.

The only action the government needs to take is to step up the vaccination programme so that any increased risks for younger people are addressed, which of course is what they are now doing. According to today’s Telegraph, the stepping up of the vaccination programme could result in up to a million people a day receiving the jab.

There is not a case for extending the restrictions as things stand.

Hugh	16-05-2021 12:57

Re: Coronavirus

So, what you are saying, is that things got worse because of an unknown factor at the time?

And now this new unknown factor has come into play, things won't get worse?

OK, then...

OLD BOY

16-05-2021 13:02

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36079626)

So, what you are saying, is that things got worse because of an unknown factor at the time?

And now this new unknown factor has come into play, things won't get worse?

OK, then...

I’m saying that the vaccination programme has enabled us to reach a better place.

Do you really believe that predictions are made having regard to unknown factors? If that was the case we’d never do anything for fear of what might conceivably happen. Hell, we’d never want to go outside if that were the case, let alone cross the road!

Carth

16-05-2021 13:11

Re: Coronavirus

Hang on here, if predictions aren't made having regard to unknown factors why are there so many words like 'if, maybe could, possibly' used in all of them?

1andrew1

16-05-2021 13:16

Re: Coronavirus

Could we see a bolt-down in Bolton? Sensible to rule nothing out.

Quote:

COVID-19: Local lockdowns can't be ruled out to curb spread of Indian variant in places like Bolton and Blackburn - Hancock

The health secretary tells Sky News he won't "rule out further action" as the India variant becomes dominant in some parts.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock has not ruled out imposing local lockdown restrictions in places worst affected by the Indian variant of coronavirus.

With a higher transmissibility than the Kent variant - which drove the UK's deadly second wave - there are fears the Indian variant could derail England's final roadmap step of lifting all restrictions on 21 June.

There have so far been more than 1,300 cases of the Indian variant found in the UK, with Mr Hancock warning it is "becoming the dominant strain" in places such as Bolton and Blackburn.

https://news.sky.com/story/hancock-d...riant-12307876

Hugh	16-05-2021 13:38

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36079629)

Risk assessment and mitigation - in a worldwide pandemic, most people err on the side of caution..

You seem to consistently err on the side of unfounded optimism… ;)

Sephiroth

16-05-2021 13:54

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36079637)

Risk assessment and mitigation - in a worldwide pandemic, most people err on the side of caution..

You seem to consistently err on the side of unfounded optimism… ;)

Do they? You seem intent on talking down to OB (when you're not doing that to me). It is in plain view that people play the odds and take the precautions they deem adequate. The current Covid data figures show that people have made the right choices, except certain groups who are less "communitaire" than most.

OB's optimism is reasonably founded because of the vaccination programme. It doesn't mean that Bolton or Leicester or the usual suspects shouldn't be kept at Level 2 - indeed they should. But the rest of us should be able to enjoy our hard won road to normality or something close to it.

Hugh	16-05-2021 14:09

Re: Coronavirus

Rebuttal is not "talking down" - you need to get off your high horse…

Taf	16-05-2021 15:12

Re: Coronavirus

And all those advocating against vaccinating young children against Covid-19 might start to worry as more information comes out about the Kawasaki-like disease that is being seen a lot more. Possibly after a covid-19 infection. "Atypical Kawasaki disease, now called Paediatric Inflammatory Multisystem Syndrome Temporally associated with SARS-CoV-2 (PIMS-TS)".

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...wasaki-disease

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/2192...ptible-severe/

And it's now being seen in adults

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj....apid-responses

Sephiroth

16-05-2021 15:40

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36079643)

Rebuttal is not "talking down" - you need to get off your high horse…

Your’s is.

Pierre

16-05-2021 17:52

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36079597)

It’s Hugh the cableforum archivist again.

To be fair the statement in September was before mass vaccination, it’s totally different scenario now

Hom3r

16-05-2021 18:02

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36079583)

but then that discriminates against those with a legit reason

No they get a form from their Dr and not some crap from Amazon.

Plus what about those of us who they could infect with a care in the world, as long as they are ok the majority can suffer.

Sephiroth

16-05-2021 18:04

Re: Coronavirus

The NHS App is now showing your vaccine record.

Jaymoss

16-05-2021 18:08

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 36079659)

No they get a form from their Dr and not some crap from Amazon.

Plus what about those of us who they could infect with a care in the world, as long as they are ok the majority can suffer.

Yes because you made the mistake in commenting with absolutes didn't you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 36079582)

They should have simply said no mask no entry no excuses no exemptions.

jfman

16-05-2021 18:11

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36079657)

It’s Hugh the cableforum archivist again.

To be fair the statement in September was before mass vaccination, it’s totally different scenario now

OB in distress so we have Diet OB along to offer a slightly more considered position.

It’s a different scenario when (and if) it’s demonstrated that the vaccine is effective AND in a sufficient proportion of the population to prevent the pandemic from gaining a foothold. It may mean we never have to return to lockdown, it doesn’t mean we can ease restrictions regardless.

Sephiroth

16-05-2021 18:41

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36079664)

You're being a pixie jfman!

OB isn't taking the "regardless" approach at all. He is taking it all into account - at least that's my reading - and he's gone to a lot of trouble in so doing.

Pierre

16-05-2021 18:52

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36079664)

OB in distress so we have Diet OB along to offer a slightly more considered position.

“Diet OB” extremely offensive, but funny, I’ll give you that.

Quote:

It’s a different scenario when (and if) it’s demonstrated that the vaccine is effective

I think, and I’m not going out on a limb here, the vaccine(s) have proven themselves effective.

Quote:

AND in a sufficient proportion of the population to prevent the pandemic from gaining a foothold.

Again I believe the volumes vaccinated, speak for themselves

Quote:

It may mean we never have to return to lockdown, it doesn’t mean we can ease restrictions regardless.

Why not, what ones should we keep?

OLD BOY

16-05-2021 19:09

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36079664)

Matt Hancock confirmed that lab data showed that the vaccine was effective against the Indian variant. This was also the view of Prof Finn, who appeared on the Andrew Marr Show.

I think, jfman, that you should consider providing links to back up your absurd view of the world, which often appears to defy common sense. You may rubbish the links that I provide, but they add support to the arguments being made, so I would certainly take you more seriously if you did that. Which you won’t, of course…

Like it or not, this lockdown is coming to an end. So will mask wearing and social distancing on 21 June. Don’t forget, you can lock yourself away if you want to. The emphasis after June will be on personal responsibility, not government diktat.

nomadking

16-05-2021 19:19

Re: Coronavirus

The fact that the question arises with each new variant of not working with current vaccines, should be concerning, in that it highlights the possibility of a new variant that dodges current immunity from whatever mechanism, in the same way seasonal flu does.

Until Covid and it's variants are eradicated, that risk will always be there.
A new variant might even affect the young and strong to a greater extent, in the same way "Spanish flu", affected those younger and stronger.
Scary, but possible scenarios, and ones that have previously occurred.

OLD BOY

16-05-2021 19:22

Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36079676)

The fact that the question arise with each new variant not working with current vaccines, should be concerning, in that it highlights the possibility of a new variant that dodges current immunity from whatever mechanism, in the same way seasonal flu does.
Until Covid and it's variants are eradicated, that risk will always be there.

A new variant might even affect the young and strong to a greater extent, in the same way "Spanish flu", affected those younger and stronger.

Scary, but possible scenarios, and ones that have previously occurred.

That’s why we need the boosters, to protect against new variants. So far, the vaccines protect against them all, but they will be modified regularly to take into account the new strains out there.

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:40.

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