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-   -   VOD : Linear is old tech - on demand is the future (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33705051)

OLD BOY 20-05-2019 13:20
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35995488)
And that has exactly what to do with what people like to watch on Sky.

Most people don't care who produces the content they either like it or not.

Sky buys lots of third party content in from the States and other countries.
The quality of which is not as good. All the really good stuff is going to streaming.

It's funny that in an attempt to prove me wrong, only one show - Game of Thrones - could be named, and that isn't even owned by Sky! Says it all, really.

It will be interesting to see what is on in its place. More repeats of GoT, no doubt!

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:17 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35995490)
Precisely.
It was an irrelevant comment you highlighted there, jfman. My point was that the TV companies will have to start producing their own material to survive, as BBC and ITV were doing.

And the answer to that is that Sky are showing HBO's Game of Thrones! Proved my point, really.

jfman 20-05-2019 13:30
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
You are conflating two issues. One being there’s no quality on linear TV (when there is) and the other being TV companies will (I would say “may”) have to produce more of their own content.

TV companies around the world will be in exactly the same boat in your post apocalyptic dystopia. There will always be scope to pool resources or buy from independent production companies.

All the “good stuff” going to streaming is entirely subjective. You’re also ignoring that Comcast are a major content owner distributor themselves.

Game of Thrones brings up something else though with this being considered a significant series drawing to a close worldwide and everyone engaging with it at roughly the same time.

Something that will be lost if series just get dropped in one go due to the entire audience watching episodes at different rates. A subscription tv series may never be as talked about it as popular again.

muppetman11 20-05-2019 13:38
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
A few we've enjoyed

The Tunnel
Patrick Melrose
Chernobyl
Strike Back
Lucky Man
Fortitude

The kids or other family members of our house enjoyed

The David Walliams programme (can't think of name)
Stella
A League of their own

Plus many others and lots of third party content.

denphone 20-05-2019 14:18
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995493)
The quality of which is not as good. All the really good stuff is going to streaming.
Bollocks as there is plenty of decent content on the Linear channels.

---------- Post added at 14:17 ---------- Previous post was at 14:15 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995493)
It's funny that in an attempt to prove me wrong, only one show - Game of Thrones - could be named, and that isn't even owned by Sky! Says it all, really.
He could list 20 , 30 or 40 shows to you but you would still be in denial.

---------- Post added at 14:18 ---------- Previous post was at 14:17 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35995497)
A few we've enjoyed

The Tunnel
Patrick Melrose
Chernobyl
Strike Back
Lucky Man
Fortitude

The kids or other family members of our house enjoyed

The David Walliams programme (can't think of name)
Stella
A League of their own

Plus many others and lots of third party content.
+1

OLD BOY 20-05-2019 14:59
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35995497)
A few we've enjoyed

The Tunnel
Patrick Melrose
Chernobyl
Strike Back
Lucky Man
Fortitude

The kids or other family members of our house enjoyed

The David Walliams programme (can't think of name)
Stella
A League of their own

Plus many others and lots of third party content.
Me too, and apart from Chernobyl (sorry, forgot about that one, although it is not available on VM), none of those are still airing. So Chernobyl is the only one! Game of Thrones has just ended with no further series being made. So what now?

muppetman11 20-05-2019 15:10
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995515)
Me too, and apart from Chernobyl (sorry, forgot about that one, although it is not available on VM), none of those are still airing. So Chernobyl is the only one! Game of Thrones has just ended with no further series being made. So what now?
Recordings of new episodes scheduled this week off Sky Entertainment Channels

Arrow
Chernobyl
Blue Bloods
Seal Team
The Rookie
Riviera
Modern Family

You wrongly assume if you don't like something nobody else does.

OLD BOY 20-05-2019 16:47
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35995496)
You are conflating two issues. One being there’s no quality on linear TV (when there is) and the other being TV companies will (I would say “may”) have to produce more of their own content.

TV companies around the world will be in exactly the same boat in your post apocalyptic dystopia. There will always be scope to pool resources or buy from independent production companies.

All the “good stuff” going to streaming is entirely subjective. You’re also ignoring that Comcast are a major content owner distributor themselves.

Game of Thrones brings up something else though with this being considered a significant series drawing to a close worldwide and everyone engaging with it at roughly the same time.

Something that will be lost if series just get dropped in one go due to the entire audience watching episodes at different rates. A subscription tv series may never be as talked about it as popular again.
Where did I say there were no quality programmes on linear TV? You twist everything I say. If you look back just a few posts ago, I gave examples of quality on linear TV - Victoria, Line of Duty and Bodyguard. I said there was a diminishing amount of it on pay tv.

It is clear to me and many others that there are plenty of quality shows on streaming services. These are on the increase, while linear TV shows (with the notable exception of BBC and ITV, whose shows will soon be on Britbox) are declining.

Whether you like it or not, I'm just pointing out what's happening, not whether it is good or bad.

---------- Post added at 16:47 ---------- Previous post was at 16:37 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35995517)
Recordings of new episodes scheduled this week off Sky Entertainment Channels

Arrow
Chernobyl
Blue Bloods
Seal Team
The Rookie
Riviera
Modern Family

You wrongly assume if you don't like something nobody else does.
Chernobyl, Blue Bloods and Riviera are all Sky Atlantic programmes, not available on VM (yet). Modern Family and Arrow appeal to a certain audience - no-one I know watches them. I think these are aimed at a much younger audience.

I haven't watched The Rookie or SEALTeam yet so I can't pass judgement on them, but really, is that the best we can come up with? Do you really think those few shows are worth over 50 quid a month? Look what you get on Netflix for a tenner! There's no comparison.

denphone 20-05-2019 16:50
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Britbox is doomed before it starts and that is just not my opinion but the words of prominent media analysts.

OLD BOY 20-05-2019 16:55
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35995525)
Britbox is doomed before it starts and that is just not my opinion but the words of prominent media analysts.
Well, at least it won't be long before we will be able to make a judgement on the validity of that typically downbeat view, Den!:cool::D

I trust you've taken account of the popularity of the BBC i-Player before posting that view.

denphone 20-05-2019 17:06
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995529)
Well, at least it won't be long before we will be able to make a judgement on the validity of that typically downbeat view, Den!:cool::D
Its the downbeat view of prominent analysts unless you think they are talking rubbish.

---------- Post added at 17:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:04 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995529)

I trust you've taken account of the popularity of the BBC i-Player before posting that view.
Why are people going to subscribe to Britbox when a lot of the content has already been shown and seen plus many of their shows they don't even own the rights to.

OLD BOY 20-05-2019 17:07
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35995507)

He could list 20 , 30 or 40 shows to you but you would still be in denial.
Except he didn't, and he can't.

I, however, can give you a huge list of stuff on Netflix at a fraction of the price Sky charges.

muppetman11 20-05-2019 17:10
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995523)
Where did I say there were no quality programmes on linear TV? You twist everything I say. If you look back just a few posts ago, I gave examples of quality on linear TV - Victoria, Line of Duty and Bodyguard. I said there was a diminishing amount of it on pay tv.

It is clear to me and many others that there are plenty of quality shows on streaming services. These are on the increase, while linear TV shows (with the notable exception of BBC and ITV, whose shows will soon be on Britbox) are declining.

Whether you like it or not, I'm just pointing out what's happening, not whether it is good or bad.

---------- Post added at 16:47 ---------- Previous post was at 16:37 ----------



Chernobyl, Blue Bloods and Riviera are all Sky Atlantic programmes, not available on VM (yet). Modern Family and Arrow appeal to a certain audience - no-one I know watches them. I think these are aimed at a much younger audience.

I haven't watched The Rookie or SEALTeam yet so I can't pass judgement on them, but really, is that the best we can come up with? Do you really think those few shows are worth over 50 quid a month? Look what you get on Netflix for a tenner! There's no comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995533)
Except he didn't, and he can't.

I, however, can give you a huge list of stuff on Netflix at a fraction of the price Sky charges.
Go ahead do enlighten us with your list.

OLD BOY 20-05-2019 17:15
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35995531)
Its the downbeat view of prominent analysts unless you think they are talking rubbish.

---------- Post added at 17:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:04 ----------



Why are people going to subscribe to Britbox when a lot of the content has already been shown and seen plus many of their shows they don't even own the rights to.
I would appreciate a link to that, Den. I don't recollect such assessments being made - maybe I missed that.

As for why people would subscribe to Britbox, it's for the same reason so many people love the UKTV channels. Plus, there will be archive material on there that is not currently available, plus they will have original content. It will also give viewers more time to watch recent series as the i-Player is really a catch-up service. It is very easy to fall behind with series on there.

denphone 20-05-2019 17:36
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995536)
I would appreciate a link to that, Den. I don't recollect such assessments being made - maybe I missed that.

As for why people would subscribe to Britbox, it's for the same reason so many people love the UKTV channels. Plus, there will be archive material on there that is not currently available, plus they will have original content. It will also give viewers more time to watch recent series as the i-Player is really a catch-up service. It is very easy to fall behind with series on there.
Here are a few links for you.

https://www.ibc.org/delivery/britbox...e/3742.article


https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...ll-surely-bomb


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...rime-zvplzqw5g


https://www.forbes.com/sites/paularm.../#6959510e8bb9

pip08456 20-05-2019 17:57
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Not one of those links says its doomed before it starts unless it was the paywalled Times.

Quote:
Whatever happens, and no matter how great the difficulties, broadcasters such as the BBC and ITV have to enter the stream with Britbox. It is the way the flow of the industry is going, and cannot be ignored.

OLD BOY 20-05-2019 19:51
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Thank you, Den. Out of those articles, only The Guardian carries an entirely negative view of the likelihood of success for Britbox. The others draw attention to the fact that Britbox is a bit late on the scene, although its only SVOD competitors in the UK so far are Netflix, Amazon and Starzplay.

The assumption made is that Britbox will not result in content being taken back from Netflix by the BBC, but I think that remains to be seen. Even if it isn't, there's still a wealth of content that will be available. The shows immediately available from the BBC i-Player and the new originals will be attractive, without a doubt. ITV should have a fair bit of content to add to it as well.

Mad Max 20-05-2019 20:52
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
He could list 20 , 30 or 40 shows to you but you would still be in denial.
Nah, not in a million years, Den!

muppetman11 20-05-2019 21:10
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 35995555)
Nah, not in a million years, Den!
Trust me Mad Max I'd have no problems could I actually be arsed to , it's amazing on here those that profess streaming is the holy grail of quality and yet still fork out for traditional pay TV every month many of them don't even watch Sport and claim the channels are full of dross.

Complete madness considering you can buy a streaming device for peanuts and a Freeview/Freesat recorder for a fraction of your years sub.

Horizon 20-05-2019 21:45
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995536)
I would appreciate a link to that, Den. I don't recollect such assessments being made - maybe I missed that.

As for why people would subscribe to Britbox, it's for the same reason so many people love the UKTV channels. Plus, there will be archive material on there that is not currently available, plus they will have original content. It will also give viewers more time to watch recent series as the i-Player is really a catch-up service. It is very easy to fall behind with series on there.
Between them, the BBC and ITV own the rights to lots of shows, because they're theirs. There's many decades worth of material that can be remade and that's just stuff from the past, ranging from kids shows to costume dramas, let alone brand new stories.

As I see it, Britbox is the method that secures British "broadcasting" into the future and probably will keep ITV alive for a bit longer too as the service gets jointly funded by the Beeb and ITV with perhaps CH4 coming onboard too. And without digressing too far off the subject, I believe Britbox will eventually lead to the merger of ITV and CH4 and possibly even the BBC in the future, if the license fee is stopped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995550)
Thank you, Den. Out of those articles, only The Guardian carries an entirely negative view of the likelihood of success for Britbox. The others draw attention to the fact that Britbox is a bit late on the scene, although its only SVOD competitors in the UK so far are Netflix, Amazon and Starzplay.

The assumption made is that Britbox will not result in content being taken back from Netflix by the BBC, but I think that remains to be seen. Even if it isn't, there's still a wealth of content that will be available. The shows immediately available from the BBC i-Player and the new originals will be attractive, without a doubt. ITV should have a fair bit of content to add to it as well.
Britbox doesn't need to compete with Netflix.

Netflix is becoming the first real global tv service with original shows for many different countries. Britbox will exist to purely serve the English speaking world or those interested in UK shows. It will never make foreign language shows like Netflix is doing.

And the assumption that the BBC won't pull their stuff off Netflix is wrong. Firstly, as part of the breakup of UKTV, the BBC's factual content will be exclusively licensed to Discovery's global streaming app for ten years when it launches. (Edit: The rights are for outside the UK.)

And secondly, why would the BBC keep all their other material on Netflix, when they can make money out of the stuff directly on their own commercial streaming service?

OLD BOY 21-05-2019 09:53
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35995535)
Go ahead do enlighten us with your list.
Seriously? That would take ages.

I'll give you a taster.

TV series

The Crown
Spotless
Limitless
Gypsy
Mindhunter
Frontier
Glitch
Godless
Mars
Seven Seconds
Beyond
Weeds
Dark
3 Percent
Colony
Superstition
The Rain
13 Reasons Why
Jack Taylor
Safe
Queen of the South
Secret City
Salvation
The Method
Dark Tourist
Insatiable
The Innocents
Ozark
Power
Shooter
Making a Murderer
The Haunting of Hill House
Manhunt
The Sinner
Greenleaf.......and much more

Films
The Witch
10 Cloverfield Lane
The Revenant
What Happened to Monday
The Circle
Gerald's Game
1922
Mudbound
Bright
Annihilation
Stratton
The Rachel Divide
The Ritual
Tau
Cargo
Calibre
Like Father
Jack Ryan
Jack Reacher
22 July
Operation Finale
Extinction
Close
Polar
Velvet Buzzsaw
IO
Triple Frontier
The Highwayman.......etc

I could never make a list of stuff I want to see like that from all the pay tv channels put together over the whole year. What I have set out is just a selection, and for less than a tenner a month.

Sky not only has less material but also far less choice.

---------- Post added at 09:53 ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35995558)
Trust me Mad Max I'd have no problems could I actually be arsed to , it's amazing on here those that profess streaming is the holy grail of quality and yet still fork out for traditional pay TV every month many of them don't even watch Sport and claim the channels are full of dross.

Complete madness considering you can buy a streaming device for peanuts and a Freeview/Freesat recorder for a fraction of your years sub.
I only fork out for Sky stuff to complete the choice of content I want to see, but the time is approaching when I will give up on that unless there is something compelling to keep me on the Full House. The problem I have is bringing all the OTT services together on one box. VM is certainly moving in that direction - I just have to convince myself that it is worth paying so much for that privilege. If there was an option just to take OTT, terrestrial and/or premium services, I might just take the plunge.

muppetman11 21-05-2019 10:05
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Thanks for posting that list you've only strengthened my point that linear TV is still a strong option being that a lot of those shows were originally aired on linear TV and the rights held by the likes of Comcast and Fox plus many others.

denphone 21-05-2019 11:08
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35995586)
Thanks for posting that list you've only strengthened my point that linear TV is still a strong option being that a lot of those shows were originally aired on linear TV and the rights held by the likes of Comcast and Fox plus many others.
The trouble with OB he tends to airbrush the things he does not like and keep the ones that fit his narrow agenda.

muppetman11 21-05-2019 11:24
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35995593)
The trouble with OB he tends to airbrush the things he does not like and keep the ones that fit his narrow agenda.
He also likes unfair comparisons , he wants what's airing this week on a select few channels off you whilst quoting shows from years ago on his list despite both VM and Sky having extensive back catalogues of shows aired on linear TV.:D

OLD BOY 21-05-2019 14:38
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35995586)
Thanks for posting that list you've only strengthened my point that linear TV is still a strong option being that a lot of those shows were originally aired on linear TV and the rights held by the likes of Comcast and Fox plus many others.
Some have been on linear TV it's true, but I missed them. My point is that they won't be on linear TV in the first place in future.

You've only got to look at the listings magazines to see that they are highlighting more programmes being shown on the streaming services than on the pay tv channels as good to watch.

Apart from the films, these are the highlights shown just next week:

Good Omens (Prime)
When They See Us (Netflix)
Gentleman Jack (BBC1)
Britain's Got Talent (ITV)
Black Monday (Sky Atlantic)
The Oath (My5)
Always Be My Maybe (Netflix)
The Perfection (Netflix)
Good Girls (Netflix)
Killer Ratings (Netflix)
Bad Blood (Netflix)
The Society (Netflix)
Wine Country (Netflix)
Traitors (All4)
The Wandering Earth (Netflix)
The Planets (BBC1)
Springwatch (BBC2)

Whereas not long ago, there were just one or two programmes from the streamers highlighted in TV & Satellite Week each week, just look at it now! There's not really very much worthwhile highlighting now on the TV channels. That is the trend and it points to the future direction of TV.

Raider999 21-05-2019 14:53
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35995586)
Thanks for posting that list you've only strengthened my point that linear TV is still a strong option being that a lot of those shows were originally aired on linear TV and the rights held by the likes of Comcast and Fox plus many others.
Agreed, if that is his list from linear channels I can't believe he has time to watch any streaming content.

cheekyangus 21-05-2019 15:00
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
I won't be watching Good Omens on Amazon Prime. The BBC were on the project before Amazon opened their wallet, so they deserve my viewing. I'll watch it on BBC2 later in year. Amazon's marketing for Good Omens really annoys me as they act like it's all them.

muppetman11 21-05-2019 15:02
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
I don't use TV guides (magazine) but never struggle to find new content recommended to me across both linear and Netflix.

denphone 21-05-2019 15:03
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35995624)
I don't use TV guides (magazine) but never struggle to find new content recommended to me across both linear and Netflix.
We use the wish lists and search menu's and there is plenty of good content that comes up.

muppetman11 21-05-2019 15:07
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35995622)
I won't be watching Good Omens on Amazon Prime. The BBC were on the project before Amazon opened their wallet, so they deserve my viewing. I'll watch it on BBC2 later in year. Amazon's marketing for Good Omens really annoys me as they act like it's all them.
I agree , Netflix are as bad loads of those shows OB has listed they advertise as Netflix Originals when in fact they've just bought the rights to distribute it in certain countries.

OLD BOY 21-05-2019 18:35
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35995626)
I agree , Netflix are as bad loads of those shows OB has listed they advertise as Netflix Originals when in fact they've just bought the rights to distribute it in certain countries.
A rather daft criticism IMO, although you are not the first to say it. The real point as far as the consumer is concerned is that it is being shown for the first time and it is exclusive to Netflix.

The pedantry on this forum is really tiresome and just takes us away from the theme of the points being made.

muppetman11 21-05-2019 18:42
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995658)
A rather daft criticism IMO, although you are not the first to say it. The real point as far as the consumer is concerned is that it is being shown for the first time and it is exclusive to Netflix.

The pedantry on this forum is really tiresome and just takes us away from the theme of the points being made.
And how is that any different from Sky having exclusive UK rights to Game of Thrones or Channel 4 having UK rights to a show like The Big Bang Theory I've never seen any of these declaring these shows as Sky Originals or Channel 4 Originals which wrongly suggests they've developed the show.

Your posts go more and more bizarre with every reply.:D

And to prove it here we go your reply to Raider999 :D

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...&postcount=798

denphone 21-05-2019 18:54
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995658)
A rather daft criticism IMO, although you are not the first to say it. The real point as far as the consumer is concerned is that it is being shown for the first time and it is exclusive to Netflix.

The pedantry on this forum is really tiresome and just takes us away from the theme of the points being made.
You mean its all about your view and when it comes to other people having a reasoned view its the old head in the sands scenario by you.

OLD BOY 21-05-2019 19:20
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35995660)
And how is that any different from Sky having exclusive UK rights to Game of Thrones or Channel 4 having UK rights to a show like The Big Bang Theory I've never seen any of these declaring these shows as Sky Originals or Channel 4 Originals which wrongly suggests they've developed the show.

Your posts go more and more bizarre with every reply.:D

And to prove it here we go your reply to Raider999 :D

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...&postcount=798
What does it matter what it is called? If Sky want to call it an exclusive and Netflix and Amazon call it an original,so what? I shall not be losing any sleep over it.

You've missed the point completely.

---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 19:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35995664)
You mean its all about your view and when it comes to other people having a reasoned view its the old head in the sands scenario by you.
No, I am not only focussed on my view, but it is annoying when you post something and then someone tries to belittle that point by making an irrelevant or pedantic statement.

I have absolutely no interest over whether the streamers call a new programme an original or an exclusive. What the hell does it matter and how does that relate to the point I was making?

It's just wilful deflection from the point.

muppetman11 21-05-2019 19:35
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
You missed the fact you jumped on Raider999 claiming Game of Thrones is an exclusive on Sky not a programme produced by them but claim pedantry when someone pulls you up for the same.:D

Anyway we'll leave it there , I look forward to your next link telling us how streaming will change the world for us.

Horizon 21-05-2019 19:42
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35995664)
You mean its all about your view and when it comes to other people having a reasoned view its the old head in the sands scenario by you.
Linear viewing is declining as evidenced by all the cord cutting in the States. But over here, take Sky as a good example of this. If things were all rosy on the linear front, Sky would be shouting about their new pay tv subs, instead in recent times they've gone all quiet and don't disclose how many tv customers they have.

OLD BOY 21-05-2019 19:51
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35995685)
You missed the fact you jumped on Raider999 claiming Game of Thrones is an exclusive on Sky not a programme produced by them but claim pedantry when someone pulls you up for the same.:D

Anyway we'll leave it there , I look forward to your next link telling us how streaming will change the world for us.
I 'jumped' on him as you put it because in answer to my point that TV channels like Sky would have to put more effort into making their own content, due to the fact that US imports would dry up, Raider quoted Game of Thrones as an example of how Sky was making its own content.

jfman 21-05-2019 20:46
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995688)
I 'jumped' on him as you put it because in answer to my point that TV channels like Sky would have to put more effort into making their own content, due to the fact that US imports would dry up, Raider quoted Game of Thrones as an example of how Sky was making its own content.
No he didn’t. There were two discussions going on at the same time.

cheekyangus 21-05-2019 22:42
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995670)
What does it matter what it is called? If Sky want to call it an exclusive and Netflix and Amazon call it an original,so what? I shall not be losing any sleep over it.

You've missed the point completely.

---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 19:16 ----------



No, I am not only focussed on my view, but it is annoying when you post something and then someone tries to belittle that point by making an irrelevant or pedantic statement.

I have absolutely no interest over whether the streamers call a new programme an original or an exclusive. What the hell does it matter and how does that relate to the point I was making?

It's just wilful deflection from the point.
Content creators, be they big TV production companies, songwriters or authors, don't like others taking credit for their work. If the Harry Potter novels were published in other countries with another author's name on the book cover, no matter if JK Rowling was getting her fair cut of profits I'm sure she wouldn't be happy about it.

It's one thing with calling something Exclusive, customers understand that wording, it's rarely used in a completely misleading way. I have no problem with that word.

"Original" however is taking credit, and suggests ultimate sole responsibility, and that's not OK for an import, or a co-production. It's deceiving their customers. It's like Waterstones acting like the books they sell they had a creative hand or they were responsible for discovering/nurturing the author rather than the publisher/agent.

pip08456 21-05-2019 23:10
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Netflix ren't the only one's to use it.

Raider999 22-05-2019 08:59
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995688)
I 'jumped' on him as you put it because in answer to my point that TV channels like Sky would have to put more effort into making their own content, due to the fact that US imports would dry up, Raider quoted Game of Thrones as an example of how Sky was making its own content.

I certainly did not!

OLD BOY 22-05-2019 09:37
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 35995728)
I certainly did not!
Ok, I accept that you didn't mean it as I took it, sorry.

---------- Post added at 09:37 ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35995703)
Content creators, be they big TV production companies, songwriters or authors, don't like others taking credit for their work. If the Harry Potter novels were published in other countries with another author's name on the book cover, no matter if JK Rowling was getting her fair cut of profits I'm sure she wouldn't be happy about it.

It's one thing with calling something Exclusive, customers understand that wording, it's rarely used in a completely misleading way. I have no problem with that word.

"Original" however is taking credit, and suggests ultimate sole responsibility, and that's not OK for an import, or a co-production. It's deceiving their customers. It's like Waterstones acting like the books they sell they had a creative hand or they were responsible for discovering/nurturing the author rather than the publisher/agent.
Are they perhaps calling them Netflix Originals because they commissioned the work? I don't know, but I have not heard the creators moan about this, so I assume they are not that unhappy about it.

Although it has struck a chord with some of you on this forum, I don't expect most people really care. They see the show is only on that platform and decide accordingly. It is up to the creators to object if they don't like the term. The rest of us can sleep easy in our beds. :sleeping:

Chris 22-05-2019 15:47
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Star Trek Discovery has “a Netflix original series” in its opening credits. They didn’t commission it, nor did they have any creative input. They’ve simply acquired exclusive rights to distribute it outside the USA.

cheekyangus 22-05-2019 16:13
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
I suspect the reason many people don't care, is simply because they don't know. Yes, there are many that would still probably shrug and move on if the issue was made clear, either because they either don't understand or don't care.

And even the creators may only be aware of how their show is marketed in their own country, again it's a case of them not knowing.

If the likes of Netflix and Amazon commission the show, I have no problem with the term Original, so long as it's not a joint commission. They have to be the sole commissioning party to use the term in my opinion. I wish they'd just use Exclusive.

I suppose part of the reason it is an issue for me is I'm currently working on multiple writing projects, and though many of them are intended to be books, I am looking at them from a TV/film adaptation standpoint as I go. And I know it would annoy me as the creator.

buckeye 22-05-2019 20:01
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35995816)
Star Trek Discovery has “a Netflix original series” in its opening credits. They didn’t commission it, nor did they have any creative input. They’ve simply acquired exclusive rights to distribute it outside the USA.
None of us are privy to the contracts, but how do we know that without Netflix purchasing overseas rights to Discovery the project would even have been viable?
They may not have commissioned the show but their money probably helped bring it to our screens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35995821)
I suspect the reason many people don't care, is simply because they don't know. Yes, there are many that would still probably shrug and move on if the issue was made clear, either because they either don't understand or don't care.

And even the creators may only be aware of how their show is marketed in their own country, again it's a case of them not knowing.

If the likes of Netflix and Amazon commission the show, I have no problem with the term Original, so long as it's not a joint commission. They have to be the sole commissioning party to use the term in my opinion. I wish they'd just use Exclusive.

I suppose part of the reason it is an issue for me is I'm currently working on multiple writing projects, and though many of them are intended to be books, I am looking at them from a TV/film adaptation standpoint as I go. And I know it would annoy me as the creator.
If one of your projects were to be picked up for TV or movie adaptation and as long as you were fully credited on screen and fully paid to all you would be entitled to would you have an objection if that adaptation was only a viable profitable project because overseas investors picked up the secondary rights and insisted on saying it was one of their originals where they were showing it?

cheekyangus 22-05-2019 21:05
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeye (Post 35995863)
If one of your projects were to be picked up for TV or movie adaptation and as long as you were fully credited on screen and fully paid to all you would be entitled to would you have an objection if that adaptation was only a viable profitable project because overseas investors picked up the secondary rights and insisted on saying it was one of their originals where they were showing it?
Yes. It would annoy me.

But realistically I'm not likely to be in that situation, very few authors get adaptations, many barely make a living at it. But who knows, if it it ever happened I may be old and needing to fund a nursing home. :D

Horizon 22-05-2019 23:36
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Talking of Star Trek, the new Picard show will appear on Amazon Prime when it launches, that is a surprise. I would have thought that CBS would want the show on its own streamer.

cheekyangus 22-05-2019 23:49
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon (Post 35995891)
Talking of Star Trek, the new Picard show will appear on Amazon Prime when it launches, that is a surprise. I would have thought that CBS would want the show on its own streamer.
Is it going to be on Amazon in the US? I'd have thought it would be like ST: Discovery and the one place where it's different, and therefore on CBS All Access.

pip08456 23-05-2019 00:30
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35995893)
Is it going to be on Amazon in the US? I'd have thought it would be like ST: Discovery and the one place where it's different, and therefore on CBS All Access.
Exclusively on CBS All Access in the US, Space Channel in Canada and Amazon elsewhere.

Quote:
Pinned Tweet
Star Trek
‏Verified account @StarTrek
May 15

#StarTrek: Picard will stream exclusively on @CBSAllAccess in the United States, on Amazon #PrimeVideo in more than 200 countries and territories and in Canada on Bell Media’s @SpaceChannel and OTT service @CraveCanada. @StarTrekCBS @primevideouk http://bit.ly/STPicardTitle

Chris 23-05-2019 11:01
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeye (Post 35995863)
None of us are privy to the contracts, but how do we know that without Netflix purchasing overseas rights to Discovery the project would even have been viable?
They may not have commissioned the show but their money probably helped bring it to our screens.
Overseas sales doubtless helped make the business case but that isn’t how production credits work in the industry. In any case, CBS turned down lucrative offers from Amazon and Netflix for exclusive global distribution in favour of using the show to raise the profile of their new streaming service in the USA. Netflix distributed the show in many other territories but not in the US or Canada.

The show was commissioned by CBS and bankrolled by them. Wherever they anticipated getting a return from it, the investment and the risk was theirs. Netflix is bending the truth slightly by calling it a Netflix Original Series. It is a Netflix exclusive, certainly, in the territories where they distribute it, but the terminology they have elected to use would more commonly be used of an actual production partner, which they are not (they would be in the actual end credits alongside all the other production companies and service providers if that was the case, and they aren’t - their credit is spliced onto the very beginning of the stream).

1701-e 23-05-2019 13:55
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
A quick search gets this FYI:


What is a Netflix Original?

A “Netflix Original” is defined by the status Netflix gives to the show. This may be defined by the following:
  • Netflix commissioned and produced the show
  • Netflix has exclusive international streaming rights to the show
  • Netflix has co-produced the show with another Network
  • It is a continuation of a previously cancelled show
In most cases, a show is defined as a “Netflix Original” if you can only watch it on Netflix in your respective country.


https://www.whats-on-netflix.com/new...lix-originals/

Chris 23-05-2019 13:58
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Yup, that’s what I understand it to mean - but I think they chose that terminology to imply they are perhaps more active in commissioning and producing content than they really are.

cheekyangus 23-05-2019 14:03
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35995957)
Yup, that’s what I understand it to mean - but I think they chose that terminology to imply they are perhaps more active in commissioning and producing content than they really are.
Exactly.

Horizon 23-05-2019 14:52
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
At some point Netflix will lose whole swathes of content as the media cos pull their stuff off the service and stick it onto their own services.

I suppose from Netflix's point of view, it has helped to quell the numbers by using this originals term, as it does give the impression that Netflix make a lot more content than what at first may seem obvious. But, if the end result is the same and the only place you can watch certain shows is on Netflix, regardless of whether they make them or not, I guess it doesn't really matter in the end what they label their stuff as.

oliver1948uk 27-05-2019 17:45
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
ITV and the BBC are in a face-off over their joint streaming service BritBox, as the UK broadcasters’ differing priorities threaten their united front against the likes of Netflix.

Negotiations between the country’s two biggest TV groups have grown tense, according to several people with knowledge of the matter, with commercial network ITV committing more fully to the subscription service than the publicly funded BBC.

Only ITV has pledged funding for the project, agreeing to invest £65m to the end of 2020.

https://www.ft.com/content/afe11a6a-...2-f785092ab560

---------- Post added at 17:45 ---------- Previous post was at 17:38 ----------

I didn't realise the article was behind a pay wall (it isn't on my phone) so here is the rest of it:

The BBC, meanwhile, appears to be prioritising its proprietary platform, seeking a rule change that would extend programme availability on its iPlayer service to a year after initial broadcast from the current level of 30 days. If successful, BBC content would be available for free via iPlayer for 12 months before moving to paid service BritBox.

One person close to the negotiations said ITV chief executive Carolyn McCall had “played hardball” with BBC director-general Tony Hall, telling him she would oppose the BBC’s request to media watchdog Ofcom “unless you back my project”.

ITV said it would not comment on ongoing negotiations. The BBC said both parties were working well together and were committed to the project.

But one senior BBC executive, while acknowledging the tie-up was “definitely not a forced marriage”, said “whether it will be a successful collaboration can be debated”.

The platform, which is already operating in the US where it has more than half a million subscribers, is crucial to ITV. Advertisers are following audiences online and the broadcaster’s own streaming service ITV Hub has not proved as popular as the iPlayer. The company’s market value has dropped more than a third over the past 12 months to its lowest level in six years.

Three months after Dame Carolyn said ITV was in “the concluding stage of discussions” with the BBC to launch the platform in the UK this year, touting the opportunity given the commercial broadcaster’s 1 per cent share of the country’s £6.3bn pay-TV market, no further details have been released.

Some senior insiders remain sceptical that BritBox, with only ITV’s £65m in funding, can make an impact in the era of Netflix, a company expected to spend £11.5bn on content globally this year alone that has ambitions to become a “champion of British content, talent and storytelling”.

One person close to the BritBox negotiations said there was “no way” the platform “was going to be in the same league as any of the existing streaming services”.

“It is not going to make a material difference in terms of revenues and it is not going to save the public service broadcasters, because they have very low expectations,” the person said.

Channel 4 and Channel 5, the UK’s other PSBs, said they were in “constructive discussions” with ITV on their participation in BritBox.

ITV rejected claims that enthusiasm for the streaming service was low, saying the company remained on track to deliver it in the second half of the year.

“Both ITV and the BBC believe BritBox will become a success,” the company said.

Claire Enders of Enders Analysis believes proposed advertising restrictions on unhealthy foods and pressure on the BBC to waive licence fees for the elderly mean the BBC, along with the country’s other public service broadcasters Channel 4 and Channel 5, are unlikely to pay.

The uncertainty comes at a bad time for ITV, which is facing reputational and regulatory risks over some of its programming. Dame Carolyn last week cancelled The Jeremy Kyle Show, ITV’s most popular daytime programme, after a recent guest died. That death, which followed the confirmed and suspected suicides in the past year of two former contestants in primetime hit Love Island, has prompted Ofcom scrutiny, while MPs have pledged to investigate the broader impact of reality TV.

But certain observers believe scepticism over BritBox may be misplaced.

“I can see it from the standpoint of the media elite in London, who would not watch Coronation Street if they were paid to,” said Ian Whittaker, analyst at Liberum. But there will be a demand for this product among the general population. There are people who do not want Netflix.”

denphone 27-05-2019 17:59
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Project Kangaroo 2....

Horizon 27-05-2019 21:06
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
If, as I believe, ITV is about to be taken over this year and if it's taken over by someone like Disney or Liberty, it will be very hard for the BBC to justify why its putting money into a joint venture with an American company.

And besides, as the article says, the BBC have iplayer already, so how much do they want to prop up this commercial venture and in turn, prop up their ailing competitor?

muppetman11 27-05-2019 21:15
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
I severely hope not , we already have to many American influences on our media industry.

cheekyangus 27-05-2019 23:51
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon (Post 35996711)
If, as I believe, ITV is about to be taken over this year and if it's taken over by someone like Disney or Liberty, it will be very hard for the BBC to justify why its putting money into a joint venture with an American company.

And besides, as the article says, the BBC have iplayer already, so how much do they want to prop up this commercial venture and in turn, prop up their ailing competitor?
The BBC won't want a Pay/Subscription part to iPlayer, they'll know people won't like it. It would make iPlayer confusing if nothing else, with walls/segregated areas. Better it's under a different brand with known partner.

fox35 28-05-2019 05:51
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35996721)
The BBC won't want a Pay/Subscription part to iPlayer, they'll know people won't like it. It would make iPlayer confusing if nothing else, with walls/segregated areas. Better it's under a different brand with known partner.
If the BBC needs to raise extra revenue for viewing services within the UK, then does it need to be backed by an Act of Parliament? In which case I think its highly unlikely to happen.

cheekyangus 28-05-2019 08:53
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fox35 (Post 35996724)
If the BBC needs to raise extra revenue for viewing services within the UK, then does it need to be backed by an Act of Parliament? In which case I think its highly unlikely to happen.
I was simply saying I thought it more likely that the BBC would continue with BritBox rather than change iPlayer radically.

British broadcasters need services they control to succeed, including ones that use the Netflix model.

OLD BOY 28-05-2019 09:19
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Disney shows will continue to be available for broadcasters to buy, even with the launch of Disney+ shortly. This should be a relief to those operating pay tv channels, at least for the time being.

However, whether other streaming services will follow this line is uncertain at the moment.

It does make financial sense because everyone in this line of business will want to maximise their assets.Some shows will be reserved for their OTT service as exclusives, however, at least for the first years following release.

https://tbivision.com/2019/05/24/tbi...-disney-might/

muppetman11 28-05-2019 15:54
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
It's interesting that HBO Now (the OTT service) in 2018 had only 5 million subscribers in a country the size of the USA with increased competition it's not beyond the realms of possibility to see some struggle to make any impact whatsoever.

HBO is well known in the USA I can't see a similar service attracting many over here.

cheekyangus 28-05-2019 17:01
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35996777)
It's interesting that HBO Now (the OTT service) in 2018 had only 5 million subscribers in a country the size of the USA with increased competition it's not beyond the realms of possibility to see some struggle to make any impact whatsoever.

HBO is well known in the USA I can't see a similar service attracting many over here.
Some people view many of these OTT Services launched by broadcasters as mainly existing as a bargaining tool on wider deals. One often cited in thia respect is CBS All Access, the home of Star Trek Discovery, The Good Fight and The Twilight Zone.

Horizon 28-05-2019 19:23
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35996777)
It's interesting that HBO Now (the OTT service) in 2018 had only 5 million subscribers in a country the size of the USA with increased competition it's not beyond the realms of possibility to see some struggle to make any impact whatsoever.

HBO is well known in the USA I can't see a similar service attracting many over here.
We await to see what AT&T do with regards to streaming, but if HBO content is bolted onto the wider Warner library, it should be a success considering the many decades of content they have and licensing rights to future stuff.

However, I still think we will have more media/telco/tech mergers to go besides the obvious recombination of CBS with Viacom. If Disney felt the need to bulk up its content by buying most of Fox, then I expect to see the same thing happen again with the other media companies.

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:18 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35996791)
Some people view many of these OTT Services launched by broadcasters as mainly existing as a bargaining tool on wider deals. One often cited in thia respect is CBS All Access, the home of Star Trek Discovery, The Good Fight and The Twilight Zone.
Apple seems to be in a similar position with its streaming service.

It could go all out and spend mulitple billions on content and it may still do so, but it seems more interested in having a value added service for existing customers and as bargaining chip with other companies to get Apple services on other devices and distribution systems.

---------- Post added at 19:23 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by fox35 (Post 35996724)
If the BBC needs to raise extra revenue for viewing services within the UK, then does it need to be backed by an Act of Parliament? In which case I think its highly unlikely to happen.
That's my understanding too, which is why I don't see how the BBC needs permission from Ofcom to extend iplayer services, but has already been given the green light to go ahead with Britbox by the regulator.

muppetman11 28-05-2019 19:24
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon (Post 35996834)
We await to see what AT&T do with regards to streaming, but if HBO content is bolted onto the wider Warner library, it should be a success considering the many decades of content they have and licensing rights to future stuff.

However, I still think we will have more media/telco/tech mergers to go besides the obvious recombination of CBS with Viacom. If Disney felt the need to bulk up its content by buying most of Fox, then I expect to see the same thing happen again with the other media companies.

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:18 ----------

Apple seems to be in a similar position with its streaming service.

It could go all out and spend mulitple billions on content and it may still do so, but it seems more interested in having a value added service for existing customers and as bargaining chip with other companies to get Apple services on other devices and distribution systems.
I really doubt it will attract significant numbers when up against the traditional platforms and streaming services from the likes of Netflix , Amazon and Disney.

In fact I'd go as far as to say some of these services will still choose to do content deals internationally.

Horizon 28-05-2019 19:29
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35996721)
The BBC won't want a Pay/Subscription part to iPlayer, they'll know people won't like it. It would make iPlayer confusing if nothing else, with walls/segregated areas. Better it's under a different brand with known partner.
Presumably UKTV will morph into BritBox as part of the BBC's and ITV's plans. I don't see how UKTV's streaming services, let alone channels, will survive when BritBox is around.

---------- Post added at 19:29 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35996838)
I really doubt it will attract significant numbers when up against the traditional platforms and streaming services from the likes of Netflix , Amazon and Disney.

In fact I'd go as far as to say some of these services will still choose to do content deals internationally.
That seems to be the sort of consensus among various analysts too, but the whole reason of Netflix's success, in part, is due to the data collected on its customer's viewing habits.

If some companies like CBS/Viacom never choose to release international streamers and rely on the likes of Amazon and Netflix to distribute their shows internationally, they lose that vital data.

muppetman11 28-05-2019 19:29
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Britbox is another streaming service likely to struggle in my opinion.

Horizon 28-05-2019 20:03
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35996713)
I severely hope not , we already have to many American influences on our media industry.
I wasn't worried about whether our broadcasters would all end up under American/foreign ownership, but after a certain show I saw a bit of on Netflix, I am now.

Netflix's Sex Education is the prime example, in my mind, of what may go wrong when a American company tries to do a British show, but with a eye on how it plays out in the States and elsewhere around the world. I was really looking forward to the show, but after viewing 15 minutes of it last month, I could take no more of it. It's more American than British and I hope it doesn't signify how British "broadcasting" may go in the new streaming world.

---------- Post added at 20:03 ---------- Previous post was at 19:33 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35996845)
Britbox is another streaming service likely to struggle in my opinion.
Our broadcasters don't need to spend many billions on making shows. Remember the BBC's radiophonic workshop? Things can be done well, but cheap.

Look at how many shows there are from the past (depending on your age) which could be remade for today's audience, there's tons of stuff, but there's been loads of new stories since, as we have great authors. Imagine if a British company had the film/tv rights to Harry Potter. There will be other opportunities.

muppetman11 29-05-2019 18:43
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35995493)
The quality of which is not as good. All the really good stuff is going to streaming.

It's funny that in an attempt to prove me wrong, only one show - Game of Thrones - could be named, and that isn't even owned by Sky! Says it all, really.

It will be interesting to see what is on in its place. More repeats of GoT, no doubt!
The Sky and HBO co production of Chernobyl seems to have done ok for them both , it's currently rating at 9.7 on IMDB.

https://news.sky.com/story/chernobyl...chart-11727888

OLD BOY 29-05-2019 18:51
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35997097)
The Sky and HBO co production of Chernobyl seems to have done ok for them both it's currently rating at 9.7 on IMDB.

https://news.sky.com/story/chernobyl...chart-11727888
Yes, it has, and hat's off to them for that. It would be good if we could actually list these shows that are being shown or coming soon, but sadly, these are isolated examples.

Compared with the choice we had just a few years ago, the situation is becoming increasingly dire, because scheduled channels are simply not able to bid for shows that are now destined for the various streaming services.

jfman 29-05-2019 18:51
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35997097)
The Sky and HBO co production of Chernobyl seems to have done ok for them both , it's currently rating at 9.7 on IMDB.

https://news.sky.com/story/chernobyl...chart-11727888
Fake news :D

muppetman11 29-05-2019 19:05
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35997100)
Yes, it has, and hat's off to them for that. It would be good if we could actually list these shows that are being shown or coming soon, but sadly, these are isolated examples.

Compared with the choice we had just a few years ago, the situation is becoming increasingly dire, because scheduled channels are simply not able to bid for shows that are now destined for the various streaming services.
I don't understand the last paragraph , a lot of the top rated TV series at the moment on IMDB are shows that have been on linear TV many of them on both sides of the Atlantic.

denphone 29-05-2019 19:10
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35997106)
I don't understand the last paragraph , a lot of the top rated TV series at the moment on IMDB are shows that have been on linear TV many of them on both sides of the Atlantic.
Don't worry MM as OB will always be his usual negative self about Linear TV and yet still he continues to watch the normal linear TV channels despite all his hot air and repetitive threats that he would quit being a PTV customer and just subscribe to the streaming channels instead.

OLD BOY 29-05-2019 19:10
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35997106)
I don't understand the last paragraph , a lot of the top rated TV series at the moment on IMDB are shows that have been on linear TV many of them on both sides of the Atlantic.
I don't disagree, but we are talking about new shows coming through that are reserved for exclusive viewing on new streaming sites.

jfman 29-05-2019 19:14
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35997109)
I don't disagree, but we are talking about new shows coming through that are reserved for exclusive viewing on new streaming sites.
Such as?

Where do they score on IMDB?

Mad Max 29-05-2019 19:43
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35997110)
Such as?

Where do they score on IMDB?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultas.../#1006d660464e

muppetman11 30-05-2019 13:25
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35997109)
I don't disagree, but we are talking about new shows coming through that are reserved for exclusive viewing on new streaming sites.
Production companies sell to whoever buys into their ideas so not sure what you are on about.

The likes of Liberty Global , Sky , Comcast , Disney , ITV etc own different production companies so why would they cut content off from themselves.:D

OLD BOY 31-05-2019 08:12
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35997195)
Production companies sell to whoever buys into their ideas so not sure what you are on about.

The likes of Liberty Global , Sky , Comcast , Disney , ITV etc own different production companies so why would they cut content off from themselves.:D
Isn't it obvious? The Disney + content issue has been in the news recently and discussed on this very forum. Can you really not see the way this is going?

muppetman11 31-05-2019 10:53
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35997310)
Isn't it obvious? The Disney + content issue has been in the news recently and discussed on this very forum. Can you really not see the way this is going?
What does Disney + have to do with linear channels not getting good shows ?

Even if the likes of Disney eventually make their content exclusive the likes of Sky still has NBC and its own production companies with which to redirect it's money.

jfman 31-05-2019 13:09
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35997339)
What does Disney + have to do with linear channels not getting good shows ?

Even if the likes of Disney eventually make their content exclusive the likes of Sky still has NBC and its own production companies with which to redirect it's money.
So the short answer to Old Boy’s question is no, it’s not obvious. Linear TV channels and pay-tv companies that have a mix of linear and streaming content continue to make money. Production companies want to sell content and actors/writers/directors would prefer to be in work than out of work.

OLD BOY 31-05-2019 14:46
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35997339)
What does Disney + have to do with linear channels not getting good shows ?

Even if the likes of Disney eventually make their content exclusive the likes of Sky still has NBC and its own production companies with which to redirect it's money.
So, you are of the view that Sky will be able to continue with their Sky Disney Channel when Disney+ launches over here next year? Dream on. They are already getting stuff taken off Netflix.

The same will happen with other streaming services - most if not all of their new shows will go straight to the new service and the pay tv companies won't get a look in.

---------- Post added at 14:46 ---------- Previous post was at 14:43 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35997346)
So the short answer to Old Boy’s question is no, it’s not obvious. Linear TV channels and pay-tv companies that have a mix of linear and streaming content continue to make money. Production companies want to sell content and actors/writers/directors would prefer to be in work than out of work.
Missed the point completely. The new stuff as well as back catalogues will migrate to the new SVOD services. The pay tv companies will be thrown a few scraps - mainly archive material, in all probability.

The process will start with Disney + next year.

denphone 31-05-2019 15:03
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35997374)
So, you are of the view that Sky will be able to continue with their Sky Disney Channel when Disney+ launches over here next year? Dream on. They are already getting stuff taken off Netflix.

The same will happen with other streaming services - most if not all of their new shows will go straight to the new service and the pay tv companies won't get a look in.
Another wild statement without any substantiated proof at all but then again you do have form of that OB.

---------- Post added at 15:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35997374)

Missed the point completely. The new stuff as well as back catalogues will migrate to the new SVOD services. The pay tv companies will be thrown a few scraps - mainly archive material, in all probability.

The process will start with Disney + next year.
OB why do you make such wild statements that all the good content is going to go over to the streaming companies because it quite simply has not happened and will not happen but of course because you have backed yourself into a corner with many of your unsubstantiated statements before so its better the devil you know then the devil you don't know in making these wild claims.

OLD BOY 31-05-2019 15:26
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35997380)
Another wild statement without any substantiated proof at all but then again you do have form of that OB.

---------- Post added at 15:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------



OB why do you make such wild statements that all the good content is going to go over to the streaming companies because it quite simply has not happened and will not happen but of course because you have backed yourself into a corner with many of your unsubstantiated statements before so its better the devil you know then the devil you don't know in making these wild claims.
I am pointing it out because that's what the media themselves are saying. It also explains why I am finding far fewer dramas to record these days. I'm surprised that you have not read about this, Den. It's not just me saying this.

jfman 31-05-2019 16:25
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35997374)
Missed the point completely. The new stuff as well as back catalogues will migrate to the new SVOD services. The pay tv companies will be thrown a few scraps - mainly archive material, in all probability.

The process will start with Disney + next year.
More speculation based on virtually nothing. Disney are a small fraction of a huge vibrant global marketplace.

Horizon 31-05-2019 16:55
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35997374)
So, you are of the view that Sky will be able to continue with their Sky Disney Channel when Disney+ launches over here next year? Dream on. They are already getting stuff taken off Netflix.
I gave the the example of ESPN a week or so ago, as a very clear example.

People will not pay for both a linear ESPN service and streamer. One will live, the other will not. Place your bets which will be which.

BUt Sky's films channels are another good example. Sky now has the enormous Universal film library to feed on, but if the other studios withdraw their content from Sky, that not only puts the film channels at risk, but the entire linear tv satellite service.

jfman 31-05-2019 16:59
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon (Post 35997399)
I gave the the example of ESPN a week or so ago, as a very clear example.

People will not pay for both a linear ESPN service and streamer. One will live, the other will not. Place your bets which will be which.

BUt Sky's films channels are another good example. Sky now has the enormous Universal film library to feed on, but if the other studios withdraw their content from Sky, that not only puts the film channels at risk, but the entire linear tv satellite service.
Other studios need to develop viable models to monetise their content in a more effective way than Sky handing them money every year for however many years. They are deluding themselves if they believe the public will in meaningful numbers buy six, seven or eight (maybe even more?) standalone subscription services.

OLD BOY 31-05-2019 17:57
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35997393)
More speculation based on virtually nothing. Disney are a small fraction of a huge vibrant global marketplace.
Disney is the first of a number of media companies to go down this route. I can imagine your jaw dropping next year as you see all these new VOD services starting up. The exclusivity of the material they add to their services is key to their success, so I'm afraid the TV channels won't get a look in.

It may not be news you want to hear, but it's happening anyway. If the linear channels don't produce more original content of their own, they will die.

Sad, but true. Don't shoot the messenger.

muppetman11 31-05-2019 18:31
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Perhaps someone needs to ask the BBC Director General Tony Hall why he's signed off on a deal to purchase UKTV or ask Comcast why they've bought Sky. Perhaps they should have spoke to you first OB.

Oh OB your comments gets funnier by the day.:D

jfman 31-05-2019 18:45
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35997412)
Disney is the first of a number of media companies to go down this route. I can imagine your jaw dropping next year as you see all these new VOD services starting up. The exclusivity of the material they add to their services is key to their success, so I'm afraid the TV channels won't get a look in.

It may not be news you want to hear, but it's happening anyway. If the linear channels don't produce more original content of their own, they will die.

Sad, but true. Don't shoot the messenger.
Key to what success?

I wouldn’t expect my jaw to drop far. I’ve already stated I expect distributors to vertically integrate through selling direct to subscribers.

For a right-wing, free trade supporter, who embraces with open arms free market capitalism I’m surprised that what you consistently fail to demonstrate is where the money comes from to sustain all of these independent entities. It’s basic economics. All markets have finite size. Pay-TV is an already widely exploited market, by Comcast, Liberty and yes Netflix and Amazon. The delivery method is new but the market itself isn’t.

Horizon 31-05-2019 19:56
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35997400)
Other studios need to develop viable models to monetise their content in a more effective way than Sky handing them money every year for however many years. They are deluding themselves if they believe the public will in meaningful numbers buy six, seven or eight (maybe even more?) standalone subscription services.
Not all at the same time every month, I agree, but most people will pick and mix their services to suit their needs as they do now with current subscription services.

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:55 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35997425)
Key to what success?

I wouldn’t expect my jaw to drop far. I’ve already stated I expect distributors to vertically integrate through selling direct to subscribers.

For a right-wing, free trade supporter, who embraces with open arms free market capitalism I’m surprised that what you consistently fail to demonstrate is where the money comes from to sustain all of these independent entities. It’s basic economics. All markets have finite size. Pay-TV is an already widely exploited market, by Comcast, Liberty and yes Netflix and Amazon. The delivery method is new but the market itself isn’t.
Consolidation. TV and film, telecoms and tech now all operate in the same space.

There's already only five major Hollywood studios left and they will all likely get bought out by the tech cos in the next few years. We've already got the next big merger about to start when Viacom and CBS come back together and John Malone has made no secret he wants to sell some/all of his companies out to them and merge that lot with a mobile player like Verizon too. Then, someone like Amazon will come and along and gobble the lot in one bite.

jfman 31-05-2019 20:05
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon (Post 35997437)
Not all at the same time every month, no, but most people will pick and mix their services to suit their needs as they do now with current subscription services.
Which in turn hits revenue for someone. Netflix didn’t blow $20bn for a sizeable proportion of its subscriber base to give them $30 a year.

Quote:
---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:55 ----------

Consolidation.

There's already only five major Hollywood studios left and they will all get bought out by the tech cos in the next few years, if not sooner. We've already got the next big merger about to start when Viacom and CBS come back together and John Malone has made no secret he wants to sell some/all of his companies out to them and preferably join up with a mobile player like Verizon too. Then, someone like Amazon will come and along and gobble the lot in one bite.
So we lose the competition that was supposed to drive prices down and just end up with a small number of large players anyway. So, and this is the question no-one can answer, how are Comcast/Liberty not well placed to work in this environment given they are well placed to offer both linear and VOD and have the subscriber base already?

Horizon 31-05-2019 20:13
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35997109)
I don't disagree, but we are talking about new shows coming through that are reserved for exclusive viewing on new streaming sites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35997110)
Such as?

Where do they score on IMDB?
Lets wait and see how the new Star Wars series plays out. The new Star Trek series. Perhaps the next Game of Thrones prequel may be a streamer exclusive, so we'll see what numbers that gets, if the numbers get published.

pip08456 31-05-2019 20:24
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon (Post 35997443)
Lets wait and see how the new Star Wars series plays out. The new Star Trek series. Perhaps the next Game of Thrones prequel may be a streamer exclusive, so we'll see what numbers that gets, if the numbers get published.
The current streamers (Netflix etc) don't publish numbers. The only reason the nielsen ratings came about was to help broadcasters sell advertising space.

Horizon 31-05-2019 20:25
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35997441)
Which in turn hits revenue for someone. Netflix didn’t blow $20bn for a sizeable proportion of its subscriber base to give them $30 a year.
Netflix is separate story. They had to build their content library up from nothing and to quote Reed Hastings, "they have to become HBO faster than HBO can become us." They've done it.

I would expect that the bulk of all the streamer's profits will be through DTC services, rather than going through a third party.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35997441)
So we lose the competition that was supposed to drive prices down and just end up with a small number of large players anyway. So, and this is the question no-one can answer, how are Comcast/Liberty not well placed to work in this environment given they are well placed to offer both linear and VOD and have the subscriber base already?
Just like the supermarkets, I don't expect anymore than half a dozen large players in this field and the compettion will be fierce. Whether they reach a equilibrium and prices stabilise, remains to be seen.

I never said that Comcast wouldn't be one of them, clearly they are, but more consolidation is coming and I'm certainly not clear what name plate will be on the front doors of the HQs of the Big 5 (or however many cos it will be) in the next five years, but probably Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft and Netflix.

jfman 31-05-2019 20:31
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Why would it go the way of the supermarkets and not the Big Six energy suppliers? Consistently high and rising prices. They control end to end distribution.

Supermarkets are ‘kept honest’ to a greater or lesser extent by alternatives out there.

Oligopoly is not equal to perfect competition. Not by a long shot.

muppetman11 31-05-2019 20:32
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Amazon already has its own Studios.

Horizon 31-05-2019 20:42
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35997450)
Why would it go the way of the supermarkets and not the Big Six energy suppliers? Consistently high and rising prices. They control end to end distribution.

Supermarkets are ‘kept honest’ to a greater or lesser extent by alternatives out there.

Oligopoly is not equal to perfect competition. Not by a long shot.
Indeed. Which is why I think the future of Hollywood will look exactly like it did when it originally started.

When the Studios started up, everything was done in-house. They employed all their own craftsmen, controlled distribution of their content and had exclusive deals with the top actors. It will go back to that, I reckon, just in a modern way.

At the moment, the Hollywood companies sell content to each other and many other broadcasters and distributors around the world. Soon, they will fully control their own content again, not sell it to others and probably sit around the table with the other big companies and fix the prices, if they're allowed to get away with it.

---------- Post added at 20:42 ---------- Previous post was at 20:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35997451)
Amazon already has its own Studios.
It's tiny. It will look much different if/when they gobble up a Hollywood major and some analysts are expecting that will be the CBS/Viacom company to be.

jfman 31-05-2019 20:55
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Horizon, your views and mine aren’t actually a million miles apart on this in the medium to long term.

Horizon 31-05-2019 21:28
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Numbers play a big part in this and will determine things and who the winners will be and who the losers will be. If, as I expect, Netflix get at least half a billion subscribers, spending $20bn on content each year becomes sustainable. Will Disney or the Apple owned Disney (as I expect it to be) will they catch up with Netflix? Will there be a third truly global player, a fourth and fifth? We'll probably know within the next five years.

As for linear tv, I've said before, what linear tv channels that remain in the future, I expect they will act like shop windows into the streaming services. Perhaps the big streamers will take ads, perhaps not, but the free services will be what linear channels survive and I expect most of the pay tv channels to wither away. Well, that's what Murdoch thought and as he sold the bulk of his empire on that belief, I go with that.

---------- Post added at 21:28 ---------- Previous post was at 21:04 ----------

And just coming back to the comparison with the energy companies, the big tech/media/telco companies may not get everything their own way.

I've spoken about for years about what I originally called the portals, which in today's terms would probably be called social media.

As well as the big media/tech companies, there could literally hundreds/thousands of sites producing quality content and people come together from around the world on their favourite subjects and chip in to fund it, what we would now call crowdfunding. These sites may not attract the big name actors or directors, but that does not mean they would all be rubbish or not find their own niche. Look at youtube. There's rubbish on there, but also quality stuff.

OLD BOY 01-06-2019 02:07
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35997450)
Why would it go the way of the supermarkets and not the Big Six energy suppliers? Consistently high and rising prices. They control end to end distribution.

Supermarkets are ‘kept honest’ to a greater or lesser extent by alternatives out there.

Oligopoly is not equal to perfect competition. Not by a long shot.
You can't compare this with the energy companies, because there is no choice other than go with one of them.

Nobody forces you to subscribe to any TV service, do they?


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