Cable Forum - The energy crisis

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- Current Affairs (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=20)

- - The energy crisis (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33710394)

Hugh	01-10-2021 11:03

Re: Energy companies collapse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36095350)

You'd think that with all the benefits that Double/Triple Glazing, Loft Insulation and Cavity Wall Insulation bring to homes, gas usage would be falling like a brick . . more so given the newer power generating technologies in place (wind turbines, solar power), so who's using it all?

Is the domestic customer paying the price for ever expanding business usage?

No…

https://assets.publishing.service.go...lectricity.pdf

Quote:

Electricity demand reached a record low in 2020 of 330.0 TWh, down 4.6 per cent compared to 2019.

Though electricity demand has been declining year on year since 2015, the larger reduction seen in 2020 was primarily a result of the response to the Covid-19 pandemic.

Restrictions in response to Covid-19 led to decreased industrial and commercial electricity consumption, but higher domestic consumption. Industrial use of electricity, including iron and steel, was down 9.3 per cent in 2020 compared to 2019, and consumption by other final users, including the commercial sector, decreased by 11.2 per cent. Conversely, domestic consumption increased by 3.9 per cent in 2020, in comparison with 2019.

Quote:

Total generation capacity decreased in 2020 to 75.8 GW, a 2.7 per cent decrease on the 77.9 GW capacity in 2019. While there were increases in renewable capacity, in particular off-shore wind, this was offset by the closure of coal power station Fiddler’s Ferry and nuclear station Dungeness B.

heero_yuy

01-10-2021 11:13

Re: Energy companies collapse

Quote:

Quote from The Sun:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1562846859

The British wholesale gas price for October delivery rose to 253p per therm.

That was up more than 17 per cent from the day before and means costs have more than doubled in a month.

Today marks the official start of the winter gas season when heating demand picks up.

Lower gas flows from Russia to Germany are behind the wholesale rises, coupled with fewer shipments of liquefied gas which is being snapped up by energy-hungry Asia.

Anybody would think this is being masterminded.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1597753302

:erm:

Carth

01-10-2021 11:15

Re: Energy companies collapse

Was just a thought (retired, too much time etc) that maybe the rapid automation of production/manufacturing processes was leading to us chasing our tails ;)

edit: aaah yes, gas flow diverted to Asia, just in time for the Christmas rush in cheap tat

Mr K	01-10-2021 11:38

Re: Energy companies collapse

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36095301)

Do they? Or is that them just paying off arrears?

Those that can least afford to pay, quite often on pre payment meters, pay more. Aren't we a nice society ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58746953

Quote:

The latest change means:

Those on standard tariffs, with typical household levels of energy use, will see an increase of £139 - from £1,138 to £1,277 a year - to their bill
People with prepayment meters, with average energy use, will see an annual increase of £153 - from £1,156 to £1,309

1andrew1

01-10-2021 11:50

Re: Energy companies collapse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36095359)

Those that can least afford to pay, quite often on pre payment meters, pay more. Aren't we a nice society ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58746953

It's food for thought on the levelling-up debate.

Paul	01-10-2021 14:53

Re: Energy companies collapse

All the articles on the price cap always refer to households with 'average' energy use.

What is the definition of "average use" - how many actual KWH ?

joglynne

01-10-2021 15:10

Re: Energy companies collapse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36095381)

All the articles on the price cap always refer to households with 'average' energy use.

What is the definition of "average use" - how many actual KWH ?

Your question got me wondering what the answer was. So far I have found this explanation but have to admit my brain is hurting trying to work out what relevance it has in real life situations as to my way of thinking there are far too many variables.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...ology-note.pdf

I am sure many people use comparison sites, I use the MSE comparison site which uses my actual yearly usage to provide a more errr accurate guesstimation of what it would cost between the different suppliers. I refuse to class myself as part of an average family unit.:D

Paul	01-10-2021 15:22

Re: Energy companies collapse

I simply want to know what they base it on, so I can see how far above average my useage is, and therefore calculate roughly the maximum I should be paying.

That pdf seem to state ;

Quote:

To allow for equivalent comparisons in price year-to-year, domestic bills are calculated using
set, consistent levels of consumption for each type of energy used (Gas and Electricity).

Since March 2020 the revised levels are

• 13,600 kWh for Gas
• 3,600 kWh for Standard Electricity, and
• 5,100 kWh for Economy 7 Electricity

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:16 ----------

If they are true, then my electricity use is about average (except my Standard/E7 split, I use more Day, less Night). My Gas usage is definitely over average.

joglynne

01-10-2021 16:15

Re: Energy companies collapse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36095388)

I simply want to know what they base it on, so I can see how far above average my useage is, and therefore calculate roughly the maximum I should be paying.

That pdf seem to state ;

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:16 ----------

If they are true, then my electricity use is about average (except my Standard/E7 split, I use more Day, less Night). My Gas usage is definitely over average.

That's what I found. I don't believe that an 'average usage' is anything more than an average calculation. The average can only reflect the parameters of the information gathered...real life has to many variations to allow such a calculation to be in any way accurate for any specific household .

OK my brain is complaining I have feeling that the twaddle I've just posted is beyoung understanding. :D, so I'm going to lie down in a dark room and just be glad I don't need to revisit this conundrum ever, ever again. :)

papa smurf

01-10-2021 16:29

Re: Energy companies collapse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36095350)

You'd think that with all the benefits that Double/Triple Glazing, Loft Insulation and Cavity Wall Insulation bring to homes, gas usage would be falling like a brick . . more so given the newer power generating technologies in place (wind turbines, solar power), so who's using it all?

Is the domestic customer paying the price for ever expanding business usage?

It's global warming it makes your house colder.

Paul	01-10-2021 16:32

Re: Energy companies collapse

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36095405)

It's global warming it makes your house colder.

You just feel colder, becasue its so hot when you are outside.

Eventually, all that electricity will be for coolers, not heaters ;)

Taf	01-10-2021 18:53

Re: Energy companies collapse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36095336)

Wow!

I currently (until June 22) pay 16.467p per kWh for electricity & 3.182p per kWh for gas (plus standing charges).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36095381)

What is the definition of "average use" - how many actual KWH ?

This something that OFGEM has never clarified AFAIK.

If you use less than the price cap level, can they charge you right up to the cap level?

If you use more than the price cap level, does all your usage get charged at a higher rate?

It is totally murky trying to get answers.

nomadking

01-10-2021 19:19

Re: Energy companies collapse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36095359)

Those that can least afford to pay, quite often on pre payment meters, pay more. Aren't we a nice society ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58746953

Why would those least able to pay be forced to remain on prepayment meters, unless they've had arrears at some point in the past? The bill still has to be paid.
I only had a PAYG meter because that is how it was when I moved in. It had to be freshly installed(fire damage from previously tenant) before they knew who was going to move in. I couldn't switch away from PAYG until a smart meter was installed, which I did 3 years ago.
One thing with prepayment meters is that they have to pay the retailers for having people top-up in person. Same as using credit cards. That is an extra cost.
My PAYG rate was cheaper than the credit meter rate by 0.56p/Kwh. Based upon my current smart meter device readings and the letters about the new rates, if I was still on PAYG I would be paying 1.44p/KWh less.
Difficult to be totally sure, because SSE have made such a mess over the tariffs they've informed me about. So many conflicting pieces of info from them.

---------- Post added at 19:19 ---------- Previous post was at 19:17 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36095436)

I'm with Orbit. I suggested them to friends around the UK, but the "postcode lottery effect" gave them much higher quotes, but still better than they had.

Once the prices settle down, I'll be comparing for a better deal. But I suspect many companies will go to the limit to enable them to recoup the losses they are making with Fixed Deals.

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------

This something that OFGEM has never clarified AFAIK.

If you use less than the price cap level, can they charge you right up to the cap level?

If you use more than the price cap level, does all your usage get charged at a higher rate?

It is totally murky trying to get answers.

If you were charged more because of going above the price cap level, then surely your supplier would have to give you at least 2 different rates depending on usage. Does that happen for anyone?

Taf	01-10-2021 20:27

Re: Energy companies collapse

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36095439)

If you were charged more because of going above the price cap level, then surely your supplier would have to give you at least 2 different rates depending on usage. Does that happen for anyone?

I vaguely remember paying 2 different rates at one point a few years ago. But that was because there was no Standing Charge I think. :dunce:

nomadking

01-10-2021 20:44

Re: Energy companies collapse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36095459)

I vaguely remember paying 2 different rates at one point a few years ago. But that was because there was no Standing Charge I think. :dunce:

But they would have to inform you of those 2 rates, which is what I said. It couldn't be a hidden thing as Taf is suggesting.

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