Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Of course its acceptable. Its called "real life", the world isnt some fluffy clouds utopia in which everyone gets along and no one gets upset.


Becasue that works so well. :erm:
(and demonstrates how clueless they really are).

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Yeh, just look how successful they have been blocking the Pirate Bay, KickAss and other public torrent sites. There's that many proxies out there no-one has a problem.

Factor in the private sites and torrents are still alive and kicking.

BTW I wouldn't recommend anyone downloading torrents with out a decent VPN.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well, some people do believe in absolute freedom of speech where people should be allowed to say absolutely what they want, no matter who it upsets. Would you support this?

On the other side of the spectrum, there's places like North Korea where everyone's life is controlled by the state.

I myself believe (like most things in life) that a reasonable balance between the two should be sought.

People should have freedom of expression, but people should always think twice before saying or publishing something online or should face the consequences. The consequence may simply be a retraction and apology (most people don't go out to cause offence and are horrified to learn that they have done so). A recent example of this is the cricketer Ben Stokes who mocked a disabled child for his own amusement.

If they learn something from this, all good and well, but if they refuse or become more abusive, then more robust action is required to deal with their malicious behaviour.

I think that this country is eventually getting to the right balance.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Generation snowflake weren't taught this.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I've heard the saying, but think it's wrong.

Words can definitely hurt people, they can lead to mental health problems, lack of self worth etc. Plans are afoot to treat mental cruelty in the same way as physical assault.

I remember Maggy (as a former teacher) once posting that she had witnessed a child/children being destroyed by bullying (not vertabim). I think that it was because they were ginger.

I just don't get why people think that it's ok to hurt other people for their own amusement, usually because they are different in some way.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Todays Adrian Goldberg '5 Live Investigates' programme was about hate crimes against disabled children under 16.

Over the last three years there has been a 150% increase in disabled children being subject to bullying, torment and abuse simply for being different.

These hate crimes include verbal assaults, online trolling and even violent physical attacks. These relate to one off incidents or full on campaigns of intimidation and what binds them together is that they are motivated by hostility or prejudice towards a child's mental or physical disability.

If anyone would like to listen to it they can do so here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b098mtqm

Be warned that it is heartbreaking in places.

The Home Office has asked HM Inspectorate of Constabulary has to ensure that all forms of hate crime are dealt with effectively and efficiently.

£600,000 has been made available to deal specifically with online hate crime.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I got a police warning for a facebook comment after a complaint went into them. you'd have thought I went to their house and threatend to kill them had to do the all interview the lot.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

There's only been one occasion where I was unhappy with a Facebook post and they agreed to take it down upon request, so no further action was taken.

A friend, however, had to involve the police when he was accused of being a paedophile because his partner was much younger than him (albeit over the age of consent).

At the moment individuals are responsible for what they post on the internet, but they are thinking of making site owners responsible instead.

I find this to be a little unfair (as long as they deal with any complaints properly) as they aren't responsible for what others say.

It would be an administrative nightmare to have to moderate every post beforehand. Maybe there are programs that can do it automatically, I don't know.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Sites that allow user contributions, like this forum, don't pre-moderate because if you do so you become liable for what is posted, as soon as it is posted. Reactively moderating content is legally safer because you then have a defence of sorts for the material being there in the first place, and a further defence if you deal with it in a fair and timely manner.

Sites are already at risk of being found to have committed libel by allowing defamatory content to be published, regardless of their moderation policy. In practice, however, it is very unlikely to succeed in court if there is a strong defence (rapid removal of the offending item, plus the opportunity to make amends, most likely in the form of a response by the one claiming to have been libelled).

There's also the fact that this is all dealt with as a civil matter and without the possibility of legal aid. It might be that they're thinking of making it a criminal matter so, in theory at least, it is easier to deal with as a prosecution, rather than as a civil defamation action. Whether the police and prosecutors have the time and resources for it is open to question however.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

That makes sense, I suppose if something is premoderated it by default is to be regarded as acceptable by the site involved.

Imagine if Facebook had to premoderate every comment :shocked:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The task would be Herculean, consider this:

Facebook stats

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The internet has moved beyond the point at which it's any longer possible to exercise any major form of control over it. The genie is out of the bottle.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You would need one of those massive supercomputers to do that job.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Nobody is allowed to experience anything bad any more. It's illegal.

Now everyone's life is cured! :D

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I find that remark grossly insulting and offensive and am going to report you to the thought police. Expect a knock on your door any time...


:rolleyes:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Wow, it would take forever :shocked:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...10/3.jpg:large

According to a meeting that I went to recently about discrimination based upon disability (mentioned earlier), hostility is now viewed by the police as a form of bullying.

If someone doesn't like someone, the police would still expect them to be treated with respect and courtesy. This is especially the case if the reason is because they are vulnerable or in a minority group.

I think it's because even bigots, bullies etc have found that most decent people reject and socially isolate them when they are upfront about it, so they try to hurt and discriminate against people in a more subtle manner.

Image courtesy of deadite66.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Learned today that people who have suffered online abuse, harrassment, stalking, discrimination etc who complain to the police are to be given an app that only the police can distribute.

It takes screenshots, video & audio recordings etc to be used as evidence.

By getting victims to collate their own evidence, I suppose this frees up police resources and the clampdown on this sort of behaviour won't take up too much extra time either.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

An "App", so only of any use on a smartphone then.

And how will they make it that "only the police can distribute".

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I suppose tablets can be used too.

The police say that they will distribute it (it will be password protected) only to those who need to make use of it.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Right, because no one will find out the password, or hack the site, or distribute it once they have a copy.

More typical tech cluelessness from those making these decisions.

(and really, there are tons of apps that can take screenshots and recordings already).

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Sexist hate crimes could be added to the current protected groups:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...make-misogyny/

At the moment the current protected groups only cover disability, sexuality etc.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

More BS from overpaid idiots.

This pretty sums up this nonsense ;

Suggesting ?

Right, so its not at all SEXIST to exclude men :rolleyes:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I think both should be included as to do otherwise would be as ridiculous as saying that race hate can only be applied to black people!

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I got pulled in to have a chat with the police over a facebook comment about travellers, it had been reported a couple of times in the local paper about travellers coming back to the same site in a short period of time.

Despite comments like "do what the french do" and "put landmines down" it seems my comment with chase them off with a flame thrower didn't go down so well with a "traveller charity" who reported my comment to the police.

Who actually acted on it and pulled me in for an interview about it. gave me a telling off and said I could go and mind what I say infuture as they register me on the local database.

Seems the other comments he had a copy of didn't matter "2 wrongs don't make a right" he said.

I just said right seen as you've wasted my time I'll report every comment I find offensive and expect you to act on it.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Are you really saying that the use of a flamethrower is a tool that anyone should be able to use?

What planet are you on????

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

yes we all have one in the shed don't we lol that's how much of a passing comment it was. seems land mines and blowing caravans up seems acceptable though. Even the police officer said it was an over-reaction but we are in times when people find things sensitive and they have to act on any comment that might offend that person.

Can you imagine the comments just seen on here alone sometimes. society is turning soft it's getting to the point it's best just to not say anything about anything.

"what planet are you on???" well I could find that insulting?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Sounds a bit alienist to me. :D

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Yes, aliens everywhere will be up in arms... :D

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I was (informally) talking to a police officer yesterday and he said that the police are increasingly using the 1997 Harrassment Act where people repeatedly upset people on the internet. To use this at least two incidents need to have occurred though.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Really? shame he didn't look into that when he read me the riot act as it was one incident.

unless that's for getting charged I just had a talking to

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

From what he said if someone contacts somebody, be it on the internet, phone, by letter etc and they are asked not to contact the person again, if they then go on to do so (the second time), it becomes a harrassment offence, I think that's the reasoning behind it.

So, if you've only contacted them the once, it cannot be harrassment as prior to this you hadn't contacted them, so they wouldn't have had the opportunity to say that your 'attention wasn't wanted'!

He also said that some people think that they can get round this by not naming the person directly, but if any reasonably thinking person would know who was being referred to, it's classed as having addressed that person directly.

---------- Post added at 20:47 ---------- Previous post was at 20:33 ----------

A think tank says that the way that men are often portrayed as foolish bumbling idiots by writers eg they don't know how to wash clothes properly, cook etc should be classed as sex discrimination:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...tten-l9jhdj2tw

On the one hand female stereotypes are no longer tolerated, but men seem to be fair game. On the other hand most humour is at someone else's expense and laughter is what makes the world go round...

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Just to add to the above, the tongue in cheek remarks about 'man flu' that women make have turned out to be scientifically false as men do suffer more:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-a8105006.html

Is this sexism or a bit of harmless leg pulling?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

i'm not that bothered as long as my dinner is on the table when i get home she can be as sexist as she wants .

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

MP's speak to websites who are failing to take down innapropriate content:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...wn-hate-speech

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Member of the House of Lords, digital activist, director of Twitter and founder of lastminute.com Martha Lane Fox agrees with you.

She wants to 'sort out the internet' by appointing an Ombudsman to ensure that standards are upheld and be a regulator that people can turn to when things go wrong. Not sure if this would be to replace the Internet Commissioner or not.

She is 'one of the UK's leading tech entrepreneurs' and one of the most influential voices in the sector and part of a think tank upon how the internet should be governed and made more accountable to society.

She recently interviewed 2,500 (including myself) for their thoughts about the internet and her report has now been published.

Interestingly, over 90% of people said they used the internet every day and over 50% think that the internet benefits them personally. However, only 12% think that the internet benefits society at a macro level.

With regards to your point about decision makers being out of touch, she said that it's hard for people (and the people that influence them) who are making laws to have had the same experience of the internet as the public and that they need to have a high level of digital understanding. The Government must take steps to ensure that itself, it's employees and the public must begin to understand the internet (at a more macro level).

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I presume the snowflakes also need to be taught how to use the ignore button as well or they must be looked after by the nanny state.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Don't forget the broflakes who get upset by people being upset...

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The Home Office is to fund a campaign by Changing Faces to encourage those with a disfigurement, loss of hair, scars etc to report any harassment, abuse or bullying as a hate crime.

A hate crime is defined as such by the person on the receiving end:

https://www.changingfaces.org.uk/lau...disfigurements

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Another thing I'll be ignoring I'm not reporting people because they comment on my scars even when it's negative commentary i just think this is all going a bit far especially when people get their homes burgled and there are no police resources to investigate yet hate crime\speech units are popping up everywhere.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

That's cause like motorists it's easy pickings, unlike rather more serious and dare I say it (proper) crimes. Does seem a bit crap though when your real crime is going out of control, like where Londonistan has now overtaken NY in murders.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You no longer have to tolerate comments about the way you look, but of course it is down to the individual as to whether to put up with it or not. If this behaviour was witnessed by the police, they may push for the crown to prosecute the perpetrators as it is now classed as a 'hate crime' and considered far more serious.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

If that ever happened I'd tell the police to sod off and go do some real police work sorry but i like my life with a bit of colour in it and this hate crime\speech crap is getting ridiculous. I'm sorry there are some in society who have been that sheltered from the world or whose skin is too soft they can't handle words but that's their problem either learn to deal with it or avoid it. Where does it stop do we go the whole hog and just convert the police from criminal to ideological enforcers they are on their way already so won't take much.

We do not need new ridiculous legislation any act against the person was already more then covered by the law they just didn't bother enforcing it.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Sticks & stones will break my bones . . . . . it seems many have forgotten the rest of that rhyme.

IMO words are just words, if a person allows those words to hurt them, then they themselves are giving power to those words.

The law however, now gives those same words the power of ££££'s in compensation, so it's no wonder it's such a touchy subject

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Yet more stupidity from people with nothing better to do with their lives.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

That's not the case according to the experts. Sustained insults can lead to anxiety, depression and even suicide.

There are those that claim to be able to brush it off, but usually those at the receiving end usually admit that it did get to them and that it was only their pride and desire not to let the bullies win that caused them to say otherwise.

The psychological effects of verbal abuse are explained here:

https://www.bodyandsoul.com.au/sex-r...a0899a6cc3edf5

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I have no doubts there are experts on the effects of verbal abuse there are experts for how long it takes cornflakes to get soggy the problem here is we are creating a society of weak people looking to hide behind ridiculous laws for their safety. I will tell you why i take any and all insults and it has nothing to do with pride it's all about facing those people and giving back as much as they give usually they take a lot less then they give before retreating. It was a part of my growing up process to learn how to deal with and defend myself from idiots and it has had a positive impact on my life being able to do it and not relying on others or bothering\expecting them to defend me.

Can you imagine our society in a couple of generations if this lunacy continues we will be so weak and afraid we will become a sovereign doormat of a nation scared of it's own shadow. These laws are just begging to be abused and already are to an extent and will become just another cash cow for the already bottom feeding lawyers. Rather then expect laws to protect you from normal everyday life go get the help be it courses or therapy but for gods sake stop this lunacy before the damage is permanent.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Or maybe in years to come people won't feel the need to deliberately hurt other people?

At one time racial slurs were commonplace (intended or otherwise), but these days the majority of people wouldn't feel comfortable saying them in a public place (even if they thought them).

What was once thought of as 'looney left' PC nonsense is now broadly the norm.

I do agree that it can go too far though, such as avoiding saying that someone is dead by saying they are vertically challenged!

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

It's going to take a lot more time to eliminate aggression in humans it is an integral part of us and amongst those who use racial terms with hateful intent it isn't reduced one bit in fact given the racial tension levels in the UK i think it's higher then it used to be. You cannot legislate somethings away just isn't going to work and will do more damage then good and if it is too strictly implemented may increase racial tension. We are turning into a country of molly coddled people and i think it's hilarious that on one hand people dislike state involvement in everyday life and then accept this type of legislation.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I'm assuming that's a joke - if you've actually seen it somewhere, a link would be helpful...

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I thought "vertically challenged" was the PC term when referring to dwarves or midgets?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I've only heard the term "vertically challenged" applied to little people never in relation to dead people but wouldn't be surprised.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

horizontally challenged? :P

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

H'mm, not sure. Most of the deceased I have come across have no difficulty at all in going horizontal. :D

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Why avoid saying someone was dead? I'm sure the body won't be offended.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Perhaps we are now taking the sensitivities of ghosts into account i mean they gotta have rights too :D.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I've never seen or encountered a ghost*, although I know a few people who claim to have done.

I'm sure if it did happen though, I'd be straight onto a solicitor to get an injunction order on all that skulking about at midnight rattling chains and the like.


*Movies with Patrick Swayze don't count :D

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I've encountered spirits since I was about 8 years old and do indeed believe that, in the main, they are people just like us. In fact, many once lived on this plane of existence as we currently do.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

So they can get offended then. That opens a whole new world of litigation. The compensation solicitors will be happy.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

So have I encountered spirits on many occasions in my life.

Whisky, rum and brandy in particular.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I'm not too keen on Dark rum(don't like the taste) but have no problem with the other 2.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

:D:D:D

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I'm sure they can, but resolving this won't be done in the way that us mere mortals do.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You mean there is common sense in the spirit world well there's a reason to look forward to the end then.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Compensation and retribution for all good and evil deeds done on Earth appears to be the principle.

Coming back to Earth, all of this legislation wouldn't be necessary if people were just kind and respectful to each other!

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Never gonna happen Richard, you could hang around until the end of the Human race and never see it.

Of course there's a chance that people are by then so dumbed down it won't matter . . .

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I think you'll find most of the recent comments were spawned by your "ghost" comment.

Pointless getting upset by it.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I'm not, I wasn't referring to the light hearted comments, I meant the mean things that people say to people who have a disfigurement etc.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

People everywhere, irrespective of who they are, can be verbally abused at any time by anyone - there is no prerequisite of being 'disabled etc' for this to happen.

I can probably understand where your 'frustrations' are coming from Richard, but by taking your quote in the way you (hopefully) didn't intend it to be taken, one could assume your only concern is abuse given to the disabled . . and therefore dismissive of all others.

Simply trying to point out that the most innocent of statements could - by those who look for it - be construed as something it isn't ;)

No disrespect intended, the 'unfairness' of life is there for all to see, and at least you have the courage to speak up when you feel it's needed.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Hey, Richard, could you let me know the prescriptions you are currently on? Sometimes I wish I lived in your world.

Not so much at other times, but maybe I could regulate that!

Sorry, no offence, but really... ghosts??:disturbd:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Ofcom intend to follow countries like Germany and lead a 'global assault' on online abuses covering everything from bullying & harrassment to child abuse. Germany has seen many more moderators taken on to remove innapropriate postings and deal with the perpetrators.

They believe that they are better placed to fight online abuses because it will take thr Government time to set up other bodies.

A formal duty of care placed upon providers of interaction services is proposed to ensure the wellbeing of their service users. This follows the failure of self regulation and the fact that 40% of our most vulnerable in society have experienced innapropriate treatment by others leading to 52% of the public calling for action.

A third of all adults find it difficult to use the internet without being offended by the content.

Newspaper article:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...buses-protect/

Radio discussion:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bk1c1k

It emerged that one of the men involved in bringing this initiative to Germany was found to have once called someone an "idiot" online, but he has since claimed that he wouldn't do this in the present day.

Some have called this an attack on free speech, whilst others have welcomed this as being long overdue.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

After investigating this issue for a number of years, the Government has asked the Law Commission to look into broadening the number of 'protected characteristics' covered within hate crime legislation. These could include ageism, misogyny and alternative cultures such as Goths.

James Brokenshire, the Communities Secretary, announced an updated & revised action plan today to deal with hate crimes where vulnerability and/or hatred are involved.

Organisations representing various disadvantaged groups, such as Age UK, welcomed the move as there have been cases where older people have been dehumanised.

Mark Walters, a professor of criminal law & criminology, said "hate crimes increase fear, anxiety and shame", so this is important. He went on to say that Individual groups should not be targeted and it's important to let society know that this behaviour will not be tolerated.

This comes as hate crimes have risen by 17% nationally, with hate crimes against the disabled rising by two thirds in some areas and religious hate crimes rising by 40%, with more than half of them directed at Muslims. Muslims & Jewish people were the highest groups targeted. It is said that Brexit and terrorist attacks have contributed to this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45874265

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

There's a very good reason why crime statistics keep getting worse, they keep adding extra classes to each offence now.

It would be nice if they could keep things the same for a while so we could compare like with like.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

S### like this gets added as hate crimes.

https://talkradio.co.uk/news/david-d...ns-18101628380

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I love how Misandry is never included in examples like that

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45870948

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Coming in at a distant second :tu:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

1) They're only being asked to look into it(misandry).
2) The Government doesn't seem enthusiastic to create a law on it.
3) Little chance of people being prosecuted for it.
4) Little chance of any meaningful sentences as women seem all too often to avoid jail.


All too often in an argument, all sorts of "labels" get chucked around. Doesn't mean any bias in the original argument. Just as if no "labels" are used, doesn't mean there wasn't a bias in the reason for the argument.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Thought crime will be next.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The best thing to do for anyone worried about this is to always treat all others with respect, courtesy and kindness. That way it won't ever be possible to be accused of breaking any laws about this. I'm sure that you wouldn't want the right to be able to be unpleasent and discriminatory towards anybody, be they elderly, disabled, gay, black etc or otherwse!

I hope that misandry is included though as, if not, it's like saying that the legislation to prevent racial attacks should only apply to black/Asian people!

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

All because the poor snowflakes cant cope with real life.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Oh, totally. I'm just concerned that with more and more specific legislation, we're sliding feet first into a totalitarian country where everyone could be criminalized on request and nobody has the right to freedom of thought. It may be possible to use machine learning techniques to derive emotional state or internal thought processes by following someone's social media or series of facial expressions on CCTV. "We wouldn't want people to start having any negative thoughts now would we, since that can lead to mental health problems." (no politically centred or slightly-to-the-right of centre crimethink allowed, etc).

For example, imagine if someone began to question in their own mind whether or not the BBC should force everyone to wear a poppy. Oops. There's a van outside.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The politicians are making a pig's ear out of this. What about those who are not 'protected'? Would it not be more appropriate to outlaw such behaviour against anyone?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

But that would be too reasonable. Nobody would get to feel special or included that way. Also, It is cheaper to be seen to be doing something and staying on social media than it is to be going outside and doing policing there.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Not only is it unfair to select particular groups of people who are to be 'protected', leaving the 'unprotected' exposed to abuse, do the politicians actually expect the public to remember which groups are 'protected' and which aren't in this ever growing list?

Why not just say that young and middle aged white men aren't 'protected' and they are on their own?

Absolutely ridiculous. And we elect these people!

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I wouldn't describe those who suffer a hate crime as a snowflake. Hate crimes include murder, violence and other forms of abuse.

Attitudes have successfully improved over the years towards minority, vulnerable and other groups that routinely suffered discrimination.

The issue of sexism, for example, has been at the fore for the last couple of years and is gradualy changing long held attitudes of male superiority. One example of this is the decision to scrap 'mansize' tissues in favour of 'extra large' tissues. Not the greatest act of sexism no, but it does show that people are now thinking about their attitudes more and changing them.

'Real life' is changing and younger people are genuinely horrified at the casual discrimination that existed when older people were their age.

---------- Post added at 20:20 ---------- Previous post was at 20:14 ----------

I think you have a valid point. I suspect that the idea of protecting various groups is born from the historical extra probability that such groups were more likely to suffer discrimination, harrassment, abuse etc.

The problem with this has been that some groups have had extra help as opposed to others, most has been given to black people and the rest are gradually catching up. It has also given the impression that white, straight non disabled men breeze through life without any issues, which of course is nonsense.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

It's not any act of sexism.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

It stupidly infers that only men require larger tissues and could make women feel uncomfortable buying them for various reasons e.g. that needing larger tissues means they are less feminine as a result.

I doubt that many men would still buy their favourite aftershave if it was renamed as perfume and described as having a feminine smell!

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Any woman feeling uncomfortable about buying tissues because of what is on the packet would clearly have other issues in her life she'd need to deal with first.

That has to be the most ridiculous attempt at justification I've ever heard.

What's next, fathers feeling emasculated about shopping in Iceland because, according to their advertising, that's where "Mums go"?

Avoiding Mothercare for the same reason?

Please, a dose of reality FGS.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

:clap:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

As a society we do seem to try our hardest to tie ourselves up with Gordian knots over the most stupid things, I sometimes wonder where it'll end.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Since writing this post i've seen a discussion about this on TV where women basically outlined what I suggested. Stupid sexist ideas have no place in modern society.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Change is coming yo’

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I suspect that you agree with this because, in your day, you had bigger fish to fry as far as equality goes (I remember a discussion that you contributed to about women needing a man's permission to take out a loan or have a guaranteed cheque account).

This fight has resulted in a shift in the attitudes of society and as younger people gradually replace older people in marketing, CEO's etc they are finding that outdated assumptions are embarrassing and not a good image to portray.

Remember, no complaints were made, Kleenex did this entirely off their own back. Men's noses are on average 10% larger than women's, but these days it's not appropriate to assume that larger tissues are only for men, they're for whoever needs them for whatever purpose.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

If I was a gambling man I'd be pretty happy to place a month's salary on nobody whatsoever assuming those tissues were only for men.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I'm talking about the original marketing concept, not updated since 1956. More about the decision here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45899784

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Right. So whether we're talking about "these days" or 1956 I'm pretty sure you'd agree women were/are intelligent enough to know that a tissue is a tissue and can be used by anyone.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Agreed

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Of course and some women do indeed use them, but I think that it's a good thing that the manufacturer has decided to update the product name.

As I said earlier, I think that this is pretty low on the list as far as the way that sexism affects women, but it is indicative of the way that society is improving.

I can't go into any detail, but i'm wondering if action that I took against Kimberly Clark (the manufacturer) about a different and msuch more serious act of discrimination has led them to take a long hard look at the way that they do business in other matters of equality. If so, I'm pleased that it did.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Probably not, but I can’t go into details why not...

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

So the original point you made about it was redundant and irrelevant then - glad we're agreed on that :tu:

Try "non-existent". It was not sexist in the slightest. Just a pointless token gesture to grab some headlines as we head in to "cold and flu" season.

So absolutely no reason whatsoever for you to bring it up.