Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Good grief, what a (female!) muppet.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I dare say she's traumatised...

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

So she says it was deliberste he says it was an unintended mistake for which he has apparently opologised. The majority of the extreme language in the article does seem to be coming from her but then as i suppose that's down to her feeling badly done to. I suppose you've already made your mind up regarding malicious act or silly mistake.

I called one of my male colleagues Sally the other day by mistake. I suppose i should expect my shoulder felt in the near future.

Cheers

Grim

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Prepare for the full force of the law coming to descend on you Grim, he may be a closet gay or transgender person.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Already the first example of stupidity really bodes well for the future doesn't it.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Meanwhile a friend who lives a few streets away had an expensive bike stolen from just outside the side entrance of her house, behind a gate about a week ago. She's reported it to the police and received a crime number but that's about it so far.

Now if only the perpetrator had used some offensive terminology...

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Yep a family member got burgled in march no police officers came to the house not even a crime scene tech just a crime number for insurance purposes despite the damage done to them physically and mentally the resources are not there apparently. Hurt some feelings which will be the extent of the majority of cases because of this and some people want already stretched resources further stretched so life online can be as fun and happy as some want.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

There are always idiots..we should be teaching our children ways of being able to walk away from such stupidity and how to have a thicker skin..No one loses by walking away from such small minded people and the reality is we can't legislate for what goes on in people's minds.We can only legislate against people's physical actions.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Yes, 'offend' someone by calling them a name and virtually all hell breaks loose but suffer the real lasting trauma of a burglary and the actual invasion/theft/damage of your personal property and nobody seems to care.

We were done way back in the early 1990's when thieves kicked our back door in and even now what happened has stayed with me. We were lucky back then - police attended and the following day and a forensics guy pitched up but that was about it.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Both crimes are important and should be dealt with.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I think one is more important than the other.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

It's easier for the police to do something with an IP address. I've had my bike stolen and my house broken into and the police also didn't 'do' anything but aside from examining CCTV (which they did for the bike) and taking forensics (which they did for the break-in) if nothing turns up they are limited by a lack of information. :shrug:

---------- Post added at 20:40 ---------- Previous post was at 20:34 ----------

I think you're being unfair by characterising this issue as people calling each other names. I looked at the story and assumed it was about people, largely women, getting horrific threats and violent language used against them online. I still think this is what they're primary going after although there will inevitably be the high-profile cases of them going after someone for something mild.

The enforcement of existing laws relating to threats of rape, death and violence though is perfectly acceptable to me and it shouldn't be a choice between that the enforcement of other laws. If there is then the police should prioritise the more serious crimes first but we should also see how we allocate resources.

However if you make this a case of someone calling someone an idiot online vs a old granny getting mugged in her own home then of course it's silly. We would agree on that, it's just not the debate we're having.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I think you're being extremely unfair by saying something I didn't. I don't think every example of hate crime boils down to name calling but a good proportion, probably the vast majority, do and that's what I'm referring to. I don't think it's necessary to qualify every statement I make here with a list of exclusions. If I believed, stupidly, that all hate crime is trivial nonsense, I'm quite capable of articulating that unequivocally so if I haven't done that it's safe to assume that's not what I'm saying.

Even where the abuse is most appalling such as those you quoted, how many people actually sincerely believe that some nutter from the ether who spends their entire life in their bedroom spouting this garbage is really going to murder them or rape them for something they've said on the internet? No it's not pleasant at all, it's highly unpleasant but we do need to put things into perspective and that's all I'm trying to do.

Lots of things shouldn't have to be a choice but in the real world they do - take NHS care for example and the provision of live saving drugs. There's a limit to the available resources and unless more are going to be provided to cope with the additional load, then someone else's provision is going to suffer. If the police are deluged with hate crime reports merely working through them all to prioritise them is going to be a substantial task which will require resources the police are always telling us they don't have. The very reason burglaries are being 'trivialised' is because the police no longer have the resources to deal with them properly and for me the reality of someone actually being in your home is far more worrying than a threat on the internet or for that matter some very unpleasant abuse on the train for example.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I was referring to this:

Otherwise sorry if that's not what you meant.

I don't know but as a fairly anonymous white male it's not a problem I often face. Those that do face it however are pretty vocal about how horrible an experience it is. There will be many negative experiences in life I'll never be a position to relate to and in those cases it's sensible to listen to those who are at the receiving end and believe them that it's a harrowing way to live.

A good example would be to read the accounts of female game developers or journalists at the receiving end of Gamergate. People invading their social media accounts, e-mails, phone numbers to hurl abuse and threats at them: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/0...nal-spotlight/

Or what happened to Leslie Jones for daring to be a women in a Ghostbusters movie: http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cul...f-leslie-jones

When these people are targeted they can't escape it.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I've been on the receiving end of some very unpleasant anti disabled abuse Damian but not once did i think of reporting people to the police. There always have been and there always will be ignorant morons but contrary to what some think you can't legislate everything away. My skin has thickened and my temper threshold is much higher because of the abuse I've had and I'm nothing special i haven't done anything that anyone else can't do. Most of the time the idiot brigade are looking for a reaction and any reaction and those will love having the police involved it will in their mind add something. The really serious and thoroughly unpleasant persistent abusers will be vpn'd up to their necks using ghost accounts or zombie accounts and the level of resources needed to unravel those will be out of all proportion to the number of cases.

We don't have the resources and people are not prepared to pay the amount of tax to have the resources to deal with every issue and given the number of actual physical crimes that don't get properly dealt with because of lack of resources prioritising online abuse is a slap in the face for thousands of crime victims in the UK. Internet is a choice as is how you interact with the internet you do have choices and options to avoid abuse generally and it is not something the police should be doing with their ever tightening resources.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

It is what I meant there - in respect of people calling eachother rather unpleasant names etc. That's not how I see all hate crime however and as I stated above, clearly some forms of this abuse, even verbal/written are far more serious and sinister than others and some does become 'real' as opposed to ethereal.

All the more reason for inhabitors of the social media world to be a lot more responsible what personal and identifying information they present to all and sundry I'd have thought. If I went out every day without shutting/locking my doors I don't think I'd get a lot of sympathy if I was burgled. If I broadcast all sorts of personal information to the world, I might expect a similar lack of sympathy if I wound up getting stalked or threatened by a nutter who knows where I live or work. The world shouldn't be like that but it is sadly and we all know it don't we, so why are so many people so blase about what they put online and why are they surprised when the haters appear and get very nasty indeed? :shrug:

I'd like to know what percentage of really nasty threats (e.g. murder, rape etc.) made on the internet turn out to be credible and/or carried through. A miniscule proportion I'd wager in which case whilst they're certainly unwarranted and highly unpleasant, we might wish to worry more about the far bigger risks of the real world like crossing the road, getting mugged, etc.

Of course media personalities etc. can't hide their lives so for them I'd agree that they're probably more susceptible to serious abuse, less able to protect their personal information and more likely to feel personally threatened when under attack from trolls for example.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

People can be safer online but you can't always stop it. This is even more true when you don't have the cloak of anonymity because your online presence is related to your career as was the case with many of these female gamers who've been driven out of their homes in some cases as trolls post their addresses online. They can find out about you, your employer and set out to destroy your life. Even then it can't be nice to open your phone every hour and see a flood of e-mails, tweets or messages with graphically nasty threats.

Here is another example: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wom...deo-games.html

These people ruin lives.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Which is why I mentioned those who are, for example, celebrities or high profile figures who are far more easily traced and hence more vulnerable and yes, can very well have their lives ruined by sad inadequates who get a kick out of this sort of thing. They'd clearly not be the victims of what I referred to as 'name calling', however, but something far more serious. They'd also be in a very small minority.

For by far the vast majority of people, if someone appears on social media or something and threatens them they'd be wise not to bat an eyelid because they can be pretty confident that it's far more likely their abuser is a sad, pathetic little individual for whom threats/abuse are an escape from their inadequacy, than someone who has the inclination/ability to turn their online threats into reality. If we're not going to believe that then we really ought not to use the internet or leave our front doors...

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Like most things if you take the bait....:erm:

Better to ignore the saddo.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Absolutely, but some people also bring problems upon themselves by posting inappropriate comments online:

Disability discrimination is just one of the problems emerging from the people that the Government have employed to help with the transfer from DLA to PIP (ATOS):

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/170173...ws-_-558269389

Other problems include lying, false reporting, turning up for work drunk and effectively not allowing claimants to record the conversation to protect themslves

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Will the Police be investigating these allegations as part of their crackdown on internet trolls?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I doubt it as these are seperate incidents (not allegations), they are more likely to be blacklisted from working with vulnerable people, struck off and dismissed.

They may also be placed onto the Dismissed Staff Register.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The best way to avoid most trolls is to ignore them..Give them no debate,never respond and just pretend that they don't exist. They soon get fed and leave. If you can't then you should leave.

Mind if some members did that this place might be empty.. ;)

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

But, but, but, but where's the fun in that ????!!!!!!:erm::shocked:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Very true.

A thread over ten years old about telephones was recently ressurected.

It was interesting to see how friendly people were towards each other then and how the overriding focus was on trying to help.

There was none of the point scoring, stirring and trying to be clever business at all.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I will point out that rep given in the technical forums is higher point wise than in the basement area because we are trying to encourage members to give more technical help in those areas so that's probably why there was so much help offered in that thread.

Indeed I'm wondering how many members have actually read the acceptable use policy recently?Not many I'm thinking.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I know one that hasn't.:D

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I didn't know that Maggy, it's not something i've looked into.

I agree with your comment Re: Acceptable use policy.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Police look to treating sexism & misogyny as Hate Crimes:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...lice-crackdown

This behaviour can range from harrassment, to unwanted advances and outright sexual assault.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Pity you don't abide by it.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I always try to do Maggy but when you get someone who tries to bypass open discussion by using the rep system...

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Does an ignored person have the ability to give rep?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You cannot "bypass discussion" using reps.

Maybe you need to re-read the reputation guidelines.
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...php?t=33602472

AFAIK, Yes.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

But you can threaten members using that system and then withdraw the "rep" so there's no permanent evidence.

I think that is what pip is referring to, and yes, he's done it to me.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Funny, I dont see a single report of such a thing from you.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Yes me too. Ooopppssss.... Damn I must stop dropping my Remote Control... :D

I know it's hard for normal folk to believe but some people really are that pathetic! Anyway what I advise is to do a screenshot of any such abuse so the proof is obtained and can be used in evidence... I've reported it before when a former member of CF resorted to it, note the word 'FORMER'. If it happens again I'll do likewise ;)

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

No point in feeding trolls. They crave attention.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Spot on. He does it to many on this forum if rep and pm's are to be believed.

I was restricted from posting for 24 hrs and asked the mod to check my rep to prove it was him avoiding the system. As usual nothing happens.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

If you cannot be bothered to report things then there is no point in whinging about them.

---------- Post added at 15:28 ---------- Previous post was at 15:26 ----------

Nonsense. Perhaps you were expecting some massive visual explosion ?
As usual you just assume when you have no clue what actually happens.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

An interesting read about hate crime in Britain post Brexit:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/t...crime-scandal/

One police force has attempted to reassure the LGBT community with this initiative:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...ht-hate-crime/

But when members of this community tell lies, it doesn't help their cause :(

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...d-with-making/

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

That is you truly screwed then isn't it?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I don't tell lies, how rude of you.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The irony of this thread is outstanding... :)

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

*sigh*

I can see another round of suspensions if people dont stop being childish.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I've been sent this as alternative viewpoint regarding "trolls":

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ay-i-met-troll

I found it interesting to read about the problems associated with the fact that the medium of social media etc is relatively new.

I wonder if the police will take this into account?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]Thin skinned people often cannot tell the difference between a troll and someone voicing an opinion.


We should not go with the lowest deliminator of someone saying they feel threatened or insulted by a minor comment which 99.9% of the population would not even batter an eyelid at. This way just brings an ever restrictive society where no one can express themselves or be entitled to free speech, without it being a crime.


Once we lose the ability to vent, it will lead to more physical actions to let of steam, which will be much worse in the long run.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I think that peoples feelings should be taken into consideration, but that people should voice their opinion in a polite and respectful manner.

Often, it's not the opinion of someone that's the problem, but the way that it's put across.

Having said that, should less intelligent, educated etc people, therefore be denied opportunity to make their opinion known just because they are unable to express themselves effectively??

You do make a good point, as over the years (since the 80's??) there does appear to be people who seem to spend their time perpetually 'being offended'!

The number of times that I have seen people revelling at the opportunity to call people (usually racist) on the most spurious of grounds is ridiculous.

This type are usually white and seem to be out to collect PC brownie points.

The last time I saw this was when somebody said that they had "found themselves in a prickly situation". Apparently, this innocent saying is racist as it is now said to refer to black slaves :erm:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

That person was speaking complete rubbish..

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I agree.

Apparently, it's said to be racist because it's what was said by white farmers when their wives caught them having sex with their black female slaves.

The 'prickly situation' reference is because their pubic hair is supposedly more coarse than ours (I wouldn't know).

This is what I mean about making spurious claims to be able to call someone the R word!

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Those who questioned the law on hate crimes towards minority groups might be interested in the discussion on tonight's 'One Show', after the first feature about the growing racism against Polish people:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07vw606

It clarifies that a hate crime takes place if any hostile or prejudicial behaviour towards a person is believed by the victim, a witness or both to be as a result of:

- A persons (mental or physical) disability.

- A persons race or ethnicity.

- A persons religion or belief.

- A persons sexual orientation.

- A persons transgender identity.

Over 80% of reports end in prosecution as a result of this self defined crime.

I think that the term 'Social orientation' could be problematic from something we were told at a conference many years ago.

Many years before minority groups gained legal protection, some local authorities adopted 'equal opportunity' policies.

In one case a man was dismissed after it was discovered that he was a paedophile.

He argued that he should not be dismissed as paedophilia was his sexual orientation and, consequently, this action was acting against their own equal opportunities policy!

I can see why they use the term, as it conveniently encompasses all the minority sexualities together; but doing this may be problematic.

I imagine that a lot of adults would be hostile and prejudicial towards someone found guilty of paedophilic activity; could they be found guilty of a hate crime for doing so?

As the law stands i'd say yes, which seems ridiculous (I'm not talking about cases where people have been physically violent towards people or property).

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The law is a mess. Look at how debates on belief disintegrate even on the fairly polite forum here. There are people here of opposing beliefs and with this law simply stating that can be construed as being against another belief. Where is the line between discussion/debate and "hate" crime?

And then what if your belief system includes something against on of the other factors in the list (I'm deliberately trying to keep this general and non specific).

To my mind there is a difference between being against "the belief" and being against "the person". Again the line is hard to define though where that opposition becomes "hateful".

And then there is the problem that some groups deliberately set up to "test" the system and claim "hate" crime.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You make some very good points tweetiepooh.

I guess an internet discussion becomes a hate crime once polite debates have become vehicles for personal attacks or insults.

People with opposing views should be able to discuss matters without resorting to this.

It is true that political correctness can throw up conflicts. I've attended conferences where people have caught themselves up in knots.

For example, the biggie seems to be racism, with sexism, ableism etc lower down in the hierarchy.

Some delegates were supporting the right of others to live their lives according to traditional cultures, however, this involved men making their wives walk behind them as an act of deference.

The feminists, quite rightly in my view, objected to this most strongly.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

And so it continues...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...lls-who-targe/

Very sad :(

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

True to their word, this was announced today:

http://www.newsjs.com/url.php?p=http...ws/uk-38226264

It's designed to help those who are harassed by strangers in various situations.

It's good to see that it's recognised that not all trolls etc are necessarily bad people and that their mental health will be considered and dealt with too.

Long overdue.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I hope due process is done before action is taken, there seems to be an ever increasing number of 'peculiar' people about petty & vindictive enough to set people up

especially as this is the penalty.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

.... and let's hope females stalking males are treated equally under the law. I heard Amber Rudd being interviewed about this and once again you could be forgiven for thinking that men are ever victims of this sort of thing. Quelle surprise...

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well the article itself answers that ;

Not biased at all then, despite the figures also quoted

So while not equal, the ratio is less than 2:1 (roughly 1.7 to 1).

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well who'd have thought eh? :rolleyes:

No wonder guys don't tend to complain much, they're not really being sent the message that their problems are just as valid are they? It's exactly the same when it comes to domestic violence, very little mention made of the abuse men suffer and the abject lack of services and support for them. Maybe the current focus on the abuse of young boys within football will change things for the better and maybe if the message sent out to them had been different in the past they'd have felt able to report it and this abuse would have come to light far earlier than it has.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Part of the problem with men seeking help is a culture that doesn't allow them to talk about it. You mention the football abuse but then look at some of the reactions to it, especially that of that darts player, inferring they weren't 'real men'.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

As I mentioned in the football sex abuse thread, the organisations taking the calls from victims have said that in a way it's a good thing that football was involved.

They believe that as most men can relate to football, it makes it easier for them to discuss something so difficult.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

A Daily Mail article today says that 1/3 of victims of domestic violence are men.

It's also worth noting that domestic violence doesn't have to be in the form of physical attacks.

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:33 ----------

I can't see this being much of a problem. All a person who feels that they are being stalked, harassed etc has to do is ask them to stop contacting or referring to them via any medium because it's upsetting them.

If they continue, then it's clear that they are deliberately doing it and should face the full impact of the law.

For example, a man may wish the attentions of a woman. He may not even realise that contacting her on internet forums/social networking sites et al, sending texts, writing to her, ringing her, calling round etc is a problem and may not be intentionally making a nuisance of himself.

However, if he continues after the woman has clearly stated that the attention is unwanted, that's when the law will come into play.

This law will be useful for allsorts of situations, not just cases of harassment towards women, minority groups etc.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well that isn't going to change all the time we have governments which launch new initiatives about abuse etc. without even mentioning the plight of the rapidly increasing number of male victims.

If it's hard for a woman to report abuse how much harder for men, who aren't always believed, will likely be open to threats or actual claims of sexual assault/rape, will almost inevitably lose their homes if they've been unlucky enough to father children with their abuser, will come bottom of the pile when it comes to emergency housing and will almost certainly have their children used against them by their abusive partners?

There was a very moving discussion about this subject on LBC this morning and anyone who doubts the scale of the problem men are facing in our society I suggest they listen to it via the website.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You're very passionate about this, perhaps you've had direct experience.

I hope not, but if you have, first hand experience is always invaluable in discussions like this.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

A person doesn't have to have first hand experience to feel passionately about a subject..

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

This is true, i'm passionate about some injustices in the world that haven't directly affected me.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I've been told that this is a very good organisation that helps male victims of domestic violence:

https://www.mensadviceline.org.uk

Getting back to the salient topic, Chief Superintendent Gavin Thomas yesterday called for those who commit crimes on the internet to be forced to wear a WiFi jammer.

If this works, I believe that this would be a major step forward in dealing with those who are unable to use the internet without harming others emotionally, financially, sexually etc.

Mr Thomas last spoke about the social media offences of harrassment, trolling etc last March.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Right, because that would work, and not affect anyone else at all. :dozey:

What a muppet. :rolleyes:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Amuses me when the non-technical get involved in something tech and show their shocking ignorance. Same with those who think they can regulate the internet. "We mast have new laws" and "this must be banned" they parrot forgetting that UK laws only apply to UK companies and the internet is, by it's very nature, boarderless and essentially lawless.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The internet may be essentially lawless but that does not mean countries cannot enforce laws on it. All they need do is ensure ISPs in their own countries follow the rules, and any content deemed offensive can be blocked. Yes, there are ways around most blocks, but there are ways around most burglar alarms. That does not mean it's legal to enter someone's premises without their permission.

That said, this tag they are talking about. I don't see how it will work unless it also blocks mobile phone signals. Which, in all likelyhood, it would at least partially as Wifi and Mobile phones operate on similar wavelengths and it's more difficult to block a particular signal than it is to just flood the entire wavelength with noise (which would block *every* signal on that wavelength).

Any judge that required such a tag be used would probably require that any equipment capable of connecting an Ethernet connection would be removed from the perpetrators home, and impose a custodial sentence should the perpetrator be caught going somewhere else and abusing people on line.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

...here's a thought, you can only get "bullied" on-line if you actually logon and you know *gasp* read it.

How about just ignoring it, or is that too simple and people are now conditioned into always being a victim of something or other.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The way to deal with online bullying is by dealing with the perpetrators, otherwise it's like someone standing on a street corner abusing people and telling those that complain to either take another route or buy some earplugs!

---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:54 ----------

I don't know the ins and outs of this, so I posted a question about it in the networking forum.

It's here:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...6#post35879846

Those who contributed said that they think that it's a bad idea as it's easy to get around and would affect innocent people around the troublemaker.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

This article outlines something that i've noticed about bullying on the internet:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ry-people.html

Apparently, the pack/herd mentality exists because after the first person has transgressed social graces, the other 'sheep' feel that they've been given permission to do it too.

Apparently,a lot of trolling, bullying etc is done by those having a bad day who are looking for someone else to take it out on.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

There's been some more movement on this.

The director of public prosecutions Alison Saunders has today said that the Crown Prosecution Service will push for much tougher penalties for those who abuse others online. She said that it makes no difference if the abuse is shouted at someone to their face, daubed on their wall or sent via interaction in the internet.

Furthermore, if the abuse is related to a person's disability, race, religion, sexuality etc, then perpetrators will get a tougher sentence as this will be viewed as a hate crime.

Discrimination and abuse on the internet will be treated in exactly the same way as if someone had said it to a person's face in the real world, with sentences increased accordingly. This could mean a sentence of up to ten years in jail.

There were over 1,000 cases of online harrassment based upon a person's disability last year, so this is something that I welcome to make the internet a safer and more enjoyable place for everybody.

One thing that I find odd is that this doesn't deal with misogyny?? Maybe this glaring omission will be rectified.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Gender is included...

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...t-face-to-face

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

It's the "perceived by the victim or anyone else" part that I find troubling about our hate-speech laws. It makes the whole thing very subjective.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

:tu:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I predict a can of worms being opened. I dare say the lawyers will feast on the contents.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Quite. And with generation snowflake taking offence at any slur, real or imagined, a lot of innocent people could be wrongly charged and police time wasted.

Meanwhile the robberies, burgalaries, drug dealing and street crime continue unabated. :(

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Particularly when people out of the blue play the (whatever) card as a way to end a discussion which isn't going their way. I also think the new rules should go on to make specific provision for those making frivolous claims or empty threats of 'I'll tell my high flying legal team on you', because that sort of behaviour is bullying and trolling too.


Cheers


Dave

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

:tu:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well put and very good points.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I can't think of anybody that would do the things being suggested; it's more likely down to those who indulge in this type of behaviour feeling agrieved that they are being disempowered.

This won't affect the vast majority of people who treat minority groups with respect, dignity, understanding, compassion and empathy.

Those who seek to harass, upset and belittle others are the only ones who need to be worried. Hopefully they will see the sense in the cessation of their attitude & behaviour as it simply isn't worth gaining a criminal record, imprisonment, loss of reputation, dismissal from work etc (many employers have diversity policies in place).

Re: Disability discrimination.

The most bizarre thing about the sort of people that indulge in this practice is that they fail to realise that statistics show that most people will become disabled at some point in their lives, be it through attack, disease, accident or old age. It is, therefore, extremely likely that if these people don't become disabled themselves, someone close to them will do.

When it finally dawns on them that they and their loved ones aren't invincible, watch their attitude change in a flash.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Newsflash: Frankie Boyle to get 25 years for down syndrome joke

While I don't think harsh words should contribute to someone getting jail time, this will pickup a lot of riff raff/toff raff and inbetween but I see some fairly innocent people getting caught up in police treatment too.

One example above. Being devils advocate, say someone makes a comment on this forum suggesting they think people born in some areas of Africa are more aggressive by nature and it's in their DNA. Forget snog, marry or avoid. More like ban, prison, riot. No debate, just someone saying they are hurt by the comment, lots of name calling and ban hammers to avoid police action.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I think your being very optimistic bordering on naive tbh Richard this will get misused and abused likely by the very people it's supposed to protect and i foresee a lot of wasted time and resources trying to enforce this.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well, I personally don't find Downs Syndrome funny and thought that his 'joke' at the expense of a child suffering from it to be going too far just to get a cheap laugh.

I agree that sometimes people may cause offence unintentionally with no malicious intent, in which case I would expect this to be pointed out to them. In return a retraction and apology will negate the need for more formal action, which I'm sure most right thinking people will do without a second thought.

If it makes people think twice before posting something on the internet, all well and good.

Worth pointing out that this is happening at about the same time as the right to have past internet contributions deleted. Everybody makes mistakes, which is fine as long as they are put right and lessons are learned.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I think it might just be a way of stifling debate if we aren't careful..Maybe Rotherham is a lesson to us about being afraid to say and do what is right because of the possible perception of causing offence by the powers that be.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Usually Frankie isn't taking the piss out of the down syndrome person but comparing someone else to them. It's these little differences that will be overlooked when the upset brigade start shouting requesting apologies and police action.

My personal opinion is unless more police are employed to pander to the getting upset over words brigade, let the police deal with real crime. Their numbers are decimated as it is. I would had to see a killer or rapist go free just because the police spent time chasing up a complaint by butthurt Bert who was called a name on the internet.

If we pander to everyone's feelings, eventually we may actually end up in the dystopian future Equilibrium showed us, where everyone takes a daily jab to suppress emotions, so no one gets mad or upset and no police time spent on hate crimes :p: That slippery slope...

VPN wisely, including when signing up to sites and the email addresses used for them, and you can happily say what you want without having to censor yourself over fear (although board operators may think they are clever nerfing yoru account in various ways *waves*). Sad that things have headed this way. I personally loved the wild wild west way of the internet before 'normal people found out about it and started using things like facebook and forced modding down to the level of the person who gets the most upset and offended over everything.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

There are just too many thinned skinned people around these days to make this anything more then a moaners charter, when i started out on the internet i knew abuse would happen sooner or later and over the years I've had some pretty disturbing abuse but i never even contemplated calling it a crime. Between this and the "erase your history" thing it's just dumbing the whole internet down because of a very few who may actually be victims but the majority using it because they are having a bad day.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You dont seem to find anything funny, so no surprise there.

Do you really think most people are going to apologise because some mardy ass decided to take the hump over something posted.

Are you for real ? its so far off good, its out of sight. You would have loved the 1984 world.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Just to add people will not be thinking twice about what they post as they can have any negative postings or whatever removed now so total failure on that score as well.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Nonsense, I have a wonderful sense of humour. I saw him make that 'joke' about her child with Downs Syndrome and didn't find it funny.

Most decent people don't go out to upset people and are horrified to learn about it when they have inadvertently done so. They will only be too happy to apologise, but aren't compelled to do so. However, by not sorting out the issue in an informal manner, they would run the risk of prosecution and all that that entails.

---------- Post added at 13:49 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------

Yes, it's interesting that these two things are coming out at roughly the same time. I guess people will be advised to take screenshots as evidence.

---------- Post added at 13:52 ---------- Previous post was at 13:49 ----------

I don't think that anybody wants to see healthy debate stifled in any way, but I'm sure there is a middle ground where people are free to express themselves without the use of offence, insulting behaviour etc

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/08/35.png

Knowing how easy it is to manipulate screenshots, it amazes me how much weight they can carry. The image below is exactly how I took the screenshot, so no actual photo-shopping or editing of the image needed. Just an inline edit with the browser before the capture.

There are websites that will mirror a web page or screenshot it on request, so maybe a better option but you still have to trust the integrity and security of the site/service. It's not as if sites have ever been hacked and had content changed before....

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Some interesting information here as to what approach the CPS will take regarding those who make assumptions about the credibility of disabled people, what they will do if the police think that it was not a hate crime (because the crime wasn't committed due to a hatred of disabled people, but because they are perceived as easy targets by some people) and how online attacks will be dealt with:

http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/201...-wins-support/

I had an interesting conversation yesterday with one of my niece's who works in Human Resources for a local authority in Yorkshire; she says that they are having to take this sort of behaviour more seriously given that it will become regarded as criminal behaviour. I'm surprised that they didn't before given that staff, contractors etc are required to adhere to their diversity policies!

The vast majority of MP's have been subject to online abuse (this has escalated since Brexit). In response, the Electoral Commission has suggested that they be barred from voting:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/18/ban-social-media-trolls-from-voting-election-watchdog-suggests

Is this a good idea? It could be argued that MP's shouldn't have special treatment.

There has also been an increase in 'celebraties' being bullied online. For some time there has been agencies that track down the perpetrators of this behaviour, but there has been a TV series about how these agencies are stepping up a gear by employing ex MI5 personnel etc. They say that most trolls are male and that their behaviour is driven by narcissism.

What should they do with them when they've found them? I guess if they have a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, they should be directed towards getting help from mental health professionals. Anyone else doing it for their own amusement should face the full force of the law and punished accordingly.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The Government today announced plans to "make the internet a safer place" by cracking down on cyber bullying, trolling, humiliation and under age access to pornography in a talk today. Briefly from my notes:

Their aim is to make Britain "the safest place in the world to be online", with the internet enabling freedom in a safe environment.

Matt Hancock (Digital Minister) thanked everybody who took part in the consultation to build upon the safeguards built into the Digital Economy Act.

Measures to stop children viewing pornography start next April and they are talking to those that operate social media platforms and provide communication services (I assume this means forums, email providers etc) to deal with terrorist activities, child pornography, bullying, humiliation etc. They are now able to fine operators and are considering imposing a levy upon them to pay for the extra work involved.

It emerged that over half of adults say that they have seen something online that offended or upset them.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

A foriegn company, based abroad and whose servers are also abroad and access to cannot be blocked.I wonder how they propose to do that? :rolleyes:

Typical nonsense from those who have no technical knowledge and still live in a pre internet age.

A meaningless statistic. If you asked adults if they'd ever been offended by something on TV, in the street or a pub you'd get a similar huge response.

It's like asking a school kid if they've ever been bullied in their entire time at school. :rolleyes:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I'd wager that there's not a single normal adult on Earth who hasn't at some time hurt, abused or offended someone else, quite probably many people. What are we going to do about that? :spin:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You're probably right, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable or that nothing should be done about it.

---------- Post added at 14:29 ---------- Previous post was at 14:21 ----------

The talk did make some rather bold claims, I don't know much about the technical aspects, but at a guess maybe they will block any offending sites in the UK.

Dictatorships routinely do this, so I think it would be possible as most would be too afraid, lack the technical know how or simply can't be bothered going to the effort to circumvent the ban.