Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

They are not being punished for their 'faith'. They are being punished for breaking the law.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

If selected branches of Subway, KFC, Nandos, and others can (illegally) select Halal only, thereby rejecting bacon, pork and other haram or non-halal meats based upon their faith, then these bakers can be selective about any messages on the cakes.

It could just as easily have been a heterosexual customer who ordered the cake with that message, or a different message that the bakers also didn't approve of.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Not really the same thing. You can choose what you stock but if you offer a service you cannot choose not to offer it to someone based on their religion. I agree it's a different case if you're being compelled to write a message but then if that's what you offer then in this case the court found it counted.

If they sold pre-made cakes which didn't have this message then they would not be breaking the law.

Incidentally calling something illegal doesn't make it illegal. Which is why Subway, KFC, Nandos and others are not in trouble.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

You can't choose to buy from a supplier based on their faith, yet that is what the halal only outlets are doing.
They refuse to buy from a non-Muslim source, not that they would anyway.

The LAW DOES SAY that the sourcing is illegal.
Just because something is illegal, doesn't meant prosecutions will take place. Especially for those from a "protected group"(it's an official term used in legal references).
What about others?
They can only eat meat that isn't halal and isn't kosher.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Well they’re just buying Halal from the only supplier of it....

---------- Post added at 09:09 ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 ----------

As for the slaughter houses then thy might be breaking the law in which case I don’t have a problem with them being investigated

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

If somebody buys product X for purpose Y, and the seller knows that using product X for purpose Y is illegal, then both the seller AND the buyer are complicit in breaking the law.

Eg If somebody sells Tobacco taxed in Poland(ie not UK taxed) to somebody and the seller knows it is going to be be sold on in the UK, both the seller and the buyer are breaking the law.

It can be legal to sell a replica gun, but if you know that the buyer is going to convert it to a viable firearm, then both the buyer and the seller are breaking the law.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Yes but as we have already discussed you haven't provided the law which makes it illegal to sell Halal meat to non-Muslim customers. The law provided so far only says it should be made with the intent to supply it to Muslims but nothing about it being exclusively for Muslims.

Nandos can buy Halal meat with the intent of selling it in areas with a high Muslim population and serve non-Muslims in those restaurants without breaking the law.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

1) They ARE NOT serving residential areas. Eg Subway is used by shoppers, workers, but NOT residents. Just look at the locations. 2) Even in a high Muslim residential area, The proportion of that Muslim population buying there will be very low. 3) They are Halal because of the faith of the franchisee, NOT who the customers are.

EU report.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Never knew that about Subway!

There is actually a Muslim organisation that goes round checking that Muslim traders sell halal meat. In takeaways advertised meat on pizzas is substituted for different types of meat that can be obtained the halal way, which has caused conflict with Trading Standards.

In addition, some halal traders have had action taken against them by animal rights activists.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

The couple won their appeal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45789759

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Political correctness successfully challenged at last, I guess.

However, that doesn't change my view that the owners deserved to be taken to court. What a fuss!

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Why did they deserve to be taken to court? They refused to act against their conscience by refusing to provide one very specific service that they would have refused anyone, regardless of their sexual orientation. The law, as enacted, does not make that a crime. It really ought to have been obvious from the start that no crime had been committed here and it’s shocking that this has had to go all the way to the Supreme Court to establish what the letter and spirit of the law is here.

What has in fact been revealed is a willingness not just on the part of State-funded bodies like the equalities commission, but also within the judiciary, to a fairly senior level, to elevate equalities above conscience. We were perilously close to allowing a precedent that created a thought-crime, which of course was precisely the aim of the activists behind the case and within the EQ that used public money to fund it.

Need I add that recent history shows you don’t have to have a religious faith to fall victim to those who try to use law to force issues of conscience and belief.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

My view is simply that they are running a business, and to refuse their customers on 'a point of principle', whether religious or otherwise, is unacceptable.

I have no sympathy for the owners of the business, but I am also completely fed up with political correctness, so I have mixed feelings about this.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

OK, so on points of principle, were the theatre venues who cancelled Dwarf Wrestling events wrong to do so? What about venues that cancelled Roy ‘chubby’ Brown because they decided his humour didn’t accord with their values?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-45485344

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/l...n-gig-12431123

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Seeing as that has been blindingly obvious all long(as I pointed out in post #8 from nearly 2 years ago), you have to wonder about the bias in previous rulings on the matter.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

What the bakers probably should have said to the customer is... Sorry we do not want your business and no explanation given. If you own a business you can refuse any customer/client without giving an explanation.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

You dont think that someone running a business has the right to decide if they want to refuse a customer ? I hope you are joking. :erm:

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Common sense prevailed.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

As it should.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Depends...

If they had said "i'm not serving your because you are black/gay/muslim/female (put in protected characteristic)", yes, then they should have been prosecuted, as that would have been blatant discrimination.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

They didn’t what’s your point?

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Hugh's point is that people running a business don't have the right to not serve people if the grounds they cite are protected characteristics. Hught was arguing against a general post from Paul who suggested that business owners have the right not to serve someone, not the specifics of this particular case.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Maybe someone has mentioned this already in the thread but what is the difference with this compared to shops selling halal meat or not or some shops in certain areas not sell pork products due to religion in the area?

Seems a bit one sided to me

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Yes. Wrong on both counts. Give customers what they want, within the law.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Or, put another way, the seller offers to provide a service, such as making cakes to order, which the customer accepts.

If a supermarket offers goods for sale at a reduced price by mistake, it is bound to sell it to the customer for the advertised price nonetheless.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Depends what type of cake it is. Love a fruit cake, not so keen on sponge. The icing/decoration is irrelevant.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Well seems to me it's a poor business practice to turn away customers for irrational or religious reasons..plus it could lead to losing future potential customers.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

If they tried this in London they would soon be out of business, sadly in NI sectarianism and prejudice are still far too prevalent, so they will gain business simply because they claim they are 'christian'.

Sad how various religious writings are used to shore up and excuse prejudice.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

l could not agree more.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

I believe they can still refuse to sell it, but if they choose to sell it, it has to be at the reduced price.

Maybe it's different in person, but I know a few years ago, Tesco advertised some items online for a fraction of what they actually cost and rather than take the losses, they cancelled the orders.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Not true. They can refuse to sell at the mistaken price.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Bang on!

Another point is that the order for the cake was accepted by the employee on the floor.

It was only when the bosses saw it that they refused.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Its his business he should be able to sell to who he wants to.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Yup, if the member of staff was trained to know what would be acceptable or not, the whole sorry affair would have never occurred.

Of the rights enshrined in the Human Rights act, the right to follow a religion should take least preference. After all, it is a choice to follow a particular religion and not an inherent part of who you are.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

It absolutely is not.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

I could have put that better. I agree that it is only if the product is sold, it should be at the price advertised.

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:18 ----------

...And lose the goodwill (and sales) to a whole section of the community.

I certainly wouldn't go there with such an opinionated person running the shop. He deserves to go bust.

There is this old saying about the customer always being right.

Unless you happen to be a religious zealot, no doubt!:D

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Depends on how many of that 'community' use the shop. I suspect few if any so I can't see the bakers being too bothered.

At the end of the day they stood up for what they believe in and should be commended. They have nothing against the customer, only what he was trying to say.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

I agree 100%.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Spot on. Basic contract law. Legally, the buyer is offering to pay for the product. The shop accepts the offer and provides the good. If the potential buyer doesn't offer the required price, the shop can decline the customer's offer.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Of all the posts I’ve seen on this forum that thoroughly misunderstand religious faith, this is probably the most succinct.

Faith isn’t a simple matter of choice; for many people, especially those from minority communities, following a religion is very much part of their community, and therefore their personal identity - the deep connection between the two is frequently misunderstood by Westerners.

For those who “choose” a religion outside of their upbringing there is often profound change in their way of living caused by the emergence of deep personal convictions. To even attempt to make a hierarchy of rights as you’re trying to do doesn’t just misunderstand what faith is, it’s just a bit ... well, crass. Sorry.

Also please don’t forget that London isn’t a typical world city and Western European democracies aren’t typical of human community the world over. The idea that religion is a personal bolt-on to be afforded minimal regard is a peculiarly modern, Western idea with very little analog in the present or the past.

And ... finally ... also bear in mind that that well-known religious zealot, Peter Tatchell, has supported the Ashers’ case from the outset. As a human rights campaigner of many years experience he’s well aware that you can’t pick and choose who gets to exercise their conscience and who doesn’t. Societies that try to legislate for that do tend to get it horribly wrong.

Thankfully, in this case, the Supreme Court has ruled that this is not what we have legislated for and the Ashers - and everyone else - remain free to choose, whether to personally or via business, what political or social causes to endorse. You don’t have to like what they believe but you do have to respect their right to believe it.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Thankfully - the Supreme Court disagrees with you.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

If people were prevented from following a particular religion, I would be up there protesting. Whilst that belief for some may be indoctrinated from birth and sincerely held, as an adult, there is always the choice to act as your humanity dictates rather than as a book dictates.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Again ... missing the point by a country mile. Humanity dictates vs. Book dictates is trite, and not a choice anyone with a deeply held, sincere faith would recognise. I don’t know whether you were brought up without a faith or whether you’ve rejected one somewhere along the way, but your understanding of faith appears to be based on casually-held parodies. If that’s the case it’s unsurprising that this judgment has surprised you - our law and our most senior judges still have a more rounded and dare I say mature understanding of how faith works in individuals and communities, hence the result the Ashers won this week (which, IMO, was never in doubt once the case reached the Supreme Court - the law simply doesn’t legislate against moral objections to political causes, no matter how worthy you think those causes are).

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Few people who seek to discriminate against such groups would be so blatant, what usually happens is that it's done much more subtly.

In one of the cases that I won regarding a company discriminating against me on the grounds of my disability the judge considered not only what was said, but their tone, actions and a threat to refuse to continue to provide service to me because I had made a complaint about one particular member of staff whose behaviour was subsequently deemed to be harrassment.

Comparisons were also made to the way in which similar situations were dealt with compared to mine.

This is the case where the settlement enabled me to offer financial assistance to charities nominated by forum members.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

I just realised a long time ago there is no god.

However, I understand many people need that belief and the fellowship they get from religion. Having deeply and sincerely held views.

What I do not agree with, is the use of that religious belief to treat people differently or less favourably. Societal expectations are just as bad, with such as a caste system holding people unfairly as somehow lesser.

The idea that people who love one another should not be allowed to legally marry based on a book, or campaign to have that marriage accepted when it genuinely harms no one, I have great difficulty with.

The use of belief as reason to treat someone less favourably because of a political view, whilst agreed by the Supreme Court, also feels morally wrong.

In this case tit for tat has already started.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

I know what I said, Seph, and I should have made it clear that this applies only if the item is actually sold. Hopefully, that clarifies my clarification.

:p:

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

I find your attitude towards people having faiths and sticking by them, totally disrespectful.

You go on about “humanity”, but totally throw that out of the window, during a humans first existence when they are in the womb, describing them previously as a “parasite”. What a cold hearted description of a humans becoming of life.

Also, it is by far irrelevant to apply the “humanity” element in this case, given the Supreme Courts ruling that, the Bakers refusal to bake the cake, was not discriminatory and that the Baker had a lawful right to refuse service.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Ah so scientifically accurate terms are now verboten.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

There must be some more important news than this this going on , surely ! The cake is now past its sell by date anyway ....

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Ah you mean Strictly Come Dancing I presume?:D

However if CF members want to discuss this then this is the place to do it.;)

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Depends on what you class as sold. For most online purchases, a contract is only formed once it has been dispatched. So if it hasn't been dispatched and you were charged the lower amount, the company can take that money back and not send the product. So sold in this instance doesn't mean money taken were in a shop it would.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Well ?

Where is the "Humanity", you speak of, in calling a Fetus a "Parasite" ?

In your case, "Humanity" exists, only when a suits. :rolleyes:

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Talk about making a mountain out of a m̶o̶l̶e̶ ̶h̶i̶l̶l̶ cake ;)

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

If you have nothing to add to the debate - stay the hell out of it.

Maggy gave you a kind hint earlier.

Now you are being told.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

I’m sure Tony Xu didn’t consider the publicity angle in any way shape or form before announcing to the papers that he was withholding the Ashers’ photos. :dozey: Unlike the Ashers themselves, who did not seek publicity for their actions.

I seriously doubt this is about to become a major social problem.

Also ... however much difficulty you have with people who disagree with same-sex marriage, you don’t have the right to force them to participate in its advocacy.

The price of that is that some people will refuse to do things for other people. As I said, I doubt this decision is about to cause massive social rucktions, however it is just possible that it might cause activists to think twice before trying to provoke people into doing things they can then be taken to court for.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Good result - it should never have been taken this far. Too often people of all sorts take offence far too easily at it is decaying many freedoms that were fought for.

And things are usually very one sided. And it's "my" freedoms that are being denied.

From my point of view it seems (my) faith can be criticised but anything that opposes (my) faith is freedom not to be denied.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Succinctly put Chris.

I think the issue in this case is a classic example of "Over Expectation".

Gay rights have, quite rightly, grown over the years and that is and always will be welcome in an equal society, "equal", being the buzz word, but I think some people, not all, in the LGBT Community have got ahead of themselves and think they have been given more rights over non-LGBT folk and that they can have some kind of hold over them, by playing the prejudice card.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

If the bakers refused to put 'Manchester United' on the cake (quite justifiably imho ;) ), do you think that's ok ?

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

The answer is simple..Just take your custom somewhere else. Unless you are out to pick on those who don't have the same view as you. Just how many Cakegates have there been in the last couple of years? It's becoming tedious.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

What happens when there is no alternative within a reasonable distance?

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Don't eat cake .;)

---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------

On the Jeremy vine show yesterday a caller suggested going to Morrison as they will scan any picture and put it on a cake .

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Not any picture they won't. I believe they have to follow copyright laws.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Make your own perhaps.:)

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Now that is the most constructive post in this thread :)

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Smarter than that, I get my daughter to make one. She makes the most wonderful cakes.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

She wouldn't mind or care. One of her friends from 6th form is getting married to his boyfriend soon. He studied Theology at uni.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Yes, even if I supported the club, which I don't nor ever have.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Very wise Mick, I always had you down as a City fan ;)

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

And now it finally appears to be over....

Ashers 'gay cake' case: European court rules case inadmissible

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Good, what a waste of time and money.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

As is all too often, people not seeing past the headline.
Once he does that in the UK, it starts all over again. The grounds used to bring the case to the ECHR, hadn't been brought before the UK courts.

Ultimately they didn't discriminate against him as a customer, they just weren't prepared to produce that specific item. Just as halal-only Subways are (illegally) allowed to operate.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Huge waste of time and money, they should have just gone to another shop instead of being entitled pricks - and they wonder why so many people pick on them.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

You're assuming their choice of bakers wasn't intentionally vindictive and discriminatory.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

True, I am giving them the benefit of doubt on that, but it would not surprise me if they did it deliberately.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

On the contrary - the bakers’ defence throughout has been that they were nothing of the sort. They have said so under oath. It is no mere assumption to hold that position with regard to this case.

This has always been an argument that an individual cannot be compelled to speak contrary to their conscience. The bakers have stated repeatedly that they were happy to sell the plaintiff any cake in their shop but that they would not create a product containing a slogan contrary to their own sincerely held religious belief.

Compelled speech is, and must always be, prevented in law.

---------- Post added at 20:14 ---------- Previous post was at 20:08 ----------

I would be surprised if they are allowed to bring a fresh case on new grounds. It would ultimately be the same complaint, just with different legal arguments to be presented. Were they to try, it’s likely Ashers’ lawyers would move to have them declared vexatious litigants, which is not something you want against your name.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

I said "their choice of bakers", so who did you think I was referring to as "their"? How could "their" refer to the bakers?:confused:

You're assuming that the complainants raison d'etre isn't to be "vexatious litigants". It started over 7 years ago, so what isn't "vexatious" about that?

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Apologies … I read your words back to front and thought you were discussing the bakers’ motivation when you were actually referring to the complainant.

As to the other issue, it’s not vexatious to pursue appeals through the process set down in law, all the way to the Supreme Court if the legal arguments justify it (which clearly they did here).

However, for them to now go back to the county court (or whatever its equivalent in NI) would in my view be vexatious. The complainant felt injured and had a range of options when it came to persuading the court to side with him. If his legal team made bad arguments then that’s his loss.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Over £250,000 being spent just by the NI Equality Commission, along with the costs of other people/organisations, over a cake costing £36.50, isn't vexatious?

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

No - vexatious has a particular meaning in law, and it wouldn’t apply to the process so far.

It most definitely is ridiculous though, and it leaves me wondering whether the complainant might have taken offence rather more easily than it was offered.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

As is all to often, there was no offence involved, just being awkward, bullying, and vindictive.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

I did read the whole article thank you son.

Hence "appears"

Wind your neck in. :rolleyes:

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Excellent.

We can all move on. He can choose to take his business elsewhere and they can choose to bake something that doesn’t make them feel uncomfortable.

As it should be.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Is the cake shop still in business?

---------- Post added at 22:47 ---------- Previous post was at 22:46 ----------

EDIT: Appears so: https://www.ashersbakingco.com/

Bigger than I thought, I had assumed it was a small shop and therefore this publicity/legal trouble might have been too much. Seems they're doing fine though.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

As should have happened 7 [or whatever] years ago, instead of all this legal nonsense. :sleep:

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

The lawyers can go to cake shops and ask for cakes with £50 note designs on them. Lots of them.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

This is a blast from the past I always thought this was a setup by someone who knew the religious position of the bakers and wanted to create a situation. Good to hear the shops still in business despite this faux outrage of the idiot that started all this.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

All publicity is good publicity in a fair number of cases.;)

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

I agree with the ruling in the end that you can't compel someone to create a message and it's not the same as refusing service.

That said given the size of the business, multiple stores and a supplier for supermarkets, I do wonder why someone else in the business couldn't make the cake? I originally thought it was a single, independent, baker run by this couple and they personally had to bake it against their religious beliefs.

If you're religious and you run a business is it the case that those values should flow down the entire company? That the business itself cannot produce the cake irrespective of the personal beliefs of the person actually writing that message?

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

That could get to be a slippery slope. If the basic ethos of the business is in line with the individuals then beliefs may be part of the whole.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

It’s not unusual for a business to have an ethos which it expects its employees to have due regard to. There are plenty of companies, for example, that explicitly identify themselves as vegan and cite ethical reasons for being so. They may or may not insist their employees are vegan (though that might not be legal) but they will expect employees to toe the line and be sufficiently in sympathy with the company’s aims and objectives to be able to do their jobs, whether that be product design, communication, sales or marketing or whatever.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Well as my niece is in a same-sex relationship, her and many of her friends would never go near the place, even if it was that or nothing.


As would I.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

And that is as it should be - personal choice.

Nobody should be permitted a right to inflict their own views on others.

Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 

Yeah, good point about the vegan thing although I think that is then part of that company branding in a way this objection to gay marriage isn't but I can see the company having an ethos.