Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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(miaow) |
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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---------- Post added at 18:04 ---------- Previous post was at 17:54 ---------- Quote:
OK, they were pro Russian politicians and TV channels but that was almost a year before things kicked off. Ukraine was and is a byword for state and private sector corruption (second only to Russia) and we are meant to cheer for Zelensky and hate Putin? It's like being asked whether you prefer diarrhoea or constipation. edit: For the record- I don't like Putin but I've been paying enough attention to the situation and history of what's been going in in Ukraine leading up to the invasion to understand that it's likely not a clear cut as we are being led to believe by the media. Both sides are corrupt and it's the people that suffer :( |
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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You’re right, it isn’t as clear cut as the media portrays it, it never is. The media likes a simple narrative that can be summarised in two sentences or less. But neither is it as clear cut as the equivocation you’re offering here. And in any case, nothing - absolutely nothing - in Ukraine’s modern history negates its government’s right to assert control within its internationally recognised borders, even without the evidence of atrocities committed by Russians within those areas it has occupied. |
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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Possessing a degree of corruption does not warrant an invasion from another country. Otherwise, France could invade us over PPE procurement and we could be invading Europe over the Qatar backhanders. And Putin has had a long-term stranglehold over power in Russia in the way that Zelensky has not had. But that's by the by. The question is did one country invade the other's territory. The answer is: Yes, Russia invaded Ukraine and therefore should withdraw its occupying forces from Ukraine's territory. |
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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---------- Post added at 23:05 ---------- Previous post was at 23:01 ---------- Quote:
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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Even if it were true, which it is not, as shown below, it would be no justification for Russia to invade Ukraine. Here are some articles confirming the eastward expansion promise myth is precisely that: https://theconversation.com/ukraine-...he-east-177085 https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...reement-again/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-matters-today ---------- Post added at 23:27 ---------- Previous post was at 23:23 ---------- Quote:
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
Was Russia provoked over Crimea?
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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I have to say I don’t know exactly which well you’ve been drinking from these past couple of years but I don’t much like what it’s done to you. You’re coming off a bit too Tucker Carlson for my taste. There is a disturbingly 19th century mindset at work behind what you say here. Sovereign states which are members of the United Nations simply do not invade one another, without clearance from the Security Council or in response to direct aggression (which is why, for all the crap that subsequently ensued, neither the Iraq nor Afghan wars of the early 2000s were actually illegal). That’s the ‘rules-based international order’ which has basically ensured world stability since 1945 and which Putin and the Russian State has completely trampled into the mud in Ukraine. What you’re doing here is digesting and regurgitating watered down Russian propaganda (quite unknowingly I’m sure). The effect of what you’re saying is at best the assertion of sort of moral equivalence between Russia and Ukraine. In fact I think it’s worse than that, because on the one hand you have been quite deliberately minimising Zelensky’s moral agency (by reference to a comedy routine from years ago) and that of the Ukrainian state (by misrepresenting the political upheaval it has experienced for almost 20 years now) whilst offering ‘provocation’ as the basis of a moral framework that reduces the gravity of the war crimes Putin has authorised. You would present Putin as someone misunderstood and misguided rather than what he is: a genocidal tyrant who will live in infamy. Even the Daily Mail eventually acknowledged Hitler was a bad sort. |
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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---------- Post added at 00:44 ---------- Previous post was at 00:19 ---------- It's timely to share Zelensky's joke he told on the Letterman show. Quote:
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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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I have repeatedly stated that I have no liking for the man. I'm sorry if I have come across as what you say. It was not my intention. I have also already stated that the invasion was wrong. The reason I posted what I did was to point out that before the invasion Ukraine was the second most corrupt nation in Europe and Zelensky was in charge of it. The fact that they've been invaded wouldn't have changed all that. Probably made the corruption worse if anything. |
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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The observation that Ukraine was, and remains, a deeply troubled society is totally irrelevant to the starting, continuing and the ending of the war and, again, has no relevance beyond reducing perceptions of the country’s moral agency. These observations are being promulgated by Russian propagandists precisely because they trigger MAGA Republicans in ways designed to lessen American support for Ukraine. I strongly suspect that your favoured internet sources are the ones that have been targeted by Russians in this way. |
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
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In terms of time lines, it's worth reminding ourselves that the first invasion of Ukraine was in 2014 and Zelensky became President five years after that. |
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