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Chris 23-12-2021 15:27
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36106908)
A state broadcaster that dances to the tune of the government is a dangerous thing.
Yes.

I take Jon’s point about the BBC’s particular responsibility as the state broadcaster not to cause people to behave dangerously however I don’t accept it can be right for them to do this by suddenly withholding information they have previously routinely reported as it has been released. It gives the impression that the information is somehow unavailable (and yes I know it’s available elsewhere, but the point is, they have previously released the information straight away… So they create the impression that the information is now not available, and people perhaps will not go and look for it elsewhere).

If they can fulfil their obligations, whether statutory or moral, by rigourous reporting and analysis, then all well and good. But when they start doing it (or rather attempting to do it) by withholding information… For me, they have crossed a line.

nomadking 23-12-2021 16:18
Re: Coronavirus
 
Information should be given in the proper perspective. Eg if Omicron leads to X% less severe cases, then still leaves the remainder. Also as Omicron spreads a lot more easily, that increase the actual number of cases, severe or otherwise. Then there is the issue of a potential successor to Omicron, which might be more benign or might be more severe and dodge all vaccines. Omicron has a large number of differences compared to Delta, so anything is possible.

Sephiroth 23-12-2021 16:25
Re: Coronavirus
 
The Guvmin now has enough modelling information to be able to tell us what numbers will trigger further measures. They have no valid reason not do disclose this and you can be sure that the Whitty lot already know that number.

That can be provided as a scenario based range of course based on the seriousness factor of Omicron. Like if it's 50% less likely to put someone in hospital then the infection number that triggers additional measures is X; if it's 67% lesslikely, then the trigger number of infections is Y.

Something like that.

Carth 23-12-2021 16:30
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36106915)
The Guvmin now has enough modelling information to be able to tell us what numbers will trigger further measures. They have no valid reason not do disclose this and you can be sure that the Whitty lot already know that number.

That can be provided as a scenario based range of course based on the seriousness factor of Omicron. Like if it's 50% less likely to put someone in hospital then the infection number that triggers additional measures is X; if it's 67% lesslikely, then the trigger number of infections is Y.

Something like that.
Or they could use the 'statistics' to see where the biggest rises in infections are, and then put those places in lock down and leave the rest of us alone

Merry Christmas London, Manchester, Birmingham etc etc :p:

nffc 23-12-2021 16:47
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36106916)
Or they could use the 'statistics' to see where the biggest rises in infections are, and then put those places in lock down and leave the rest of us alone

Merry Christmas London, Manchester, Birmingham etc etc :p:
That didn't work last year when they put London in tier 4 and everyone just ended up on the trains going all over the country instead.



Local lockdowns really only make sense if they are actual lockdowns and people need a reasonable excuse to leave the area, and that such is patrolled.



Realistically they would probably have to seal off the whole of London and prevent anyone going in and out if they wanted to do that, save for essential deliveries, people going to and from work who couldn't work from home, and allowing people to re-enter the area to go home if they arrived after it was locked down. That this is difficult to do here, is presumably why it won't be.



Starting to think the figures of Omicron published by UKHSA are either severely lagged or just a massive underestimate, surely now in the areas where it's dominant there is now minimal or no Delta, if the evidence Omicron is less severe is true, this is presumably good news.

Paul 23-12-2021 17:06
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36106891)
Actually it doesn't make any direct difference to the virus whether you die.
Of course it does.
If you die before its had chance to pass on, it dies as well.
Its in its own interest not to kill its hosts.

---------- Post added at 17:00 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36106899)
I really hate sounding like a conspiracy nut so let me be as charitable as I possibly can be and suggest that the BBC no longer considers itself to be an impartial news-gathering service when it comes to covid, and is instead committed to full integration with the government’s messaging strategy. It is more interested in helping secure desired behaviours from the population than simply doing what it is chartered to do.
Yesterday they had a couple of items about how Omicron was milder.
Today its back to the fear factor "Half of colds will be Covid, warn UK researchers"

---------- Post added at 17:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------

That said, this just appeared on the BBC site.

Quote:
Breaking : People catching Omicron are 50% to 70% less likely to need hospital care compared with previous variants, a major analysis says.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59769969


Quote:
The latest analysis is based on all cases of Omicron and Delta in the UK since the beginning of November, including 132 people admitted to hospital with the variant. There have also been 14 deaths in people within 28 days of catching Omicron.

The report shows people catching Omicron are:

31% to 45% less likely to go to A&E
50% to 70% less likely to be admitted to hospital for treatment

However, a milder virus could still put pressure on hospitals.

Pierre 23-12-2021 18:46
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
78,610 new cases reported in the last 24 hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36105781)
It will be genuinely interesting to see how that transposes into hospital admissions in the next 7 days or so.
Well now we know the answer!

---------- Post added at 18:40 ---------- Previous post was at 18:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36105401)
I predict a rise in infections.

But no real discernible rise in deaths or hospitalisation above levels in we saw in late Aug / late Oct.

Infections will of course be the metric we terrify everyone with, although with vaccines it’s the least important.
I claim my £5

---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:40 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
The fear mongering has started.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ay-says-sajid/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36104961)
I'm just waiting for around the 20th December.
Yep.

Mr K 23-12-2021 18:54
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36106925)
Well now we know the answer!

---------- Post added at 18:40 ---------- Previous post was at 18:35 ----------



I claim my £5

---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:40 ----------






Yep.
Talking to yourself now ! :D

spiderplant 23-12-2021 18:58
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36106919)
Of course it does.
If you die before its had chance to pass on, it dies as well.
Its in its own interest not to kill its hosts.
But it doesn't work like that. It's the body's own immune reaction that kills you, not the virus. By the time of death, the virus is long gone. So it makes no difference to the virus whether you die or not.


https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2021/12/8.jpg

Maggy 23-12-2021 19:35
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36106929)
But it doesn't work like that. It's the body's own immune reaction that kills you, not the virus. By the time of death, the virus is long gone. So it makes no difference to the virus whether you die or not.


https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2021/12/8.jpg
Might we have a link to that about the immune reaction. Me and my Human Biology GCE O-level am having a hard time with the idea that it’s not the virus that kills you but your own body’s defences that does.

spiderplant 23-12-2021 19:45
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36106930)
Might we have a link to that about the immune reaction. Me and my Human Biology GCE O-level am having a hard time with the idea that it’s not the virus that kills you but your own body’s defences that does.
Google "covid disease progression", and you'll find plenty of articles of varying readability.

This one is a good place to start:
https://viralzone.expasy.org/9116

Pierre 23-12-2021 19:55
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36106930)
Might we have a link to that about the immune reaction. Me and my Human Biology GCE O-level am having a hard time with the idea that it’s not the virus that kills you but your own body’s defences that does.
I believe he is correct. I listened to a radio interview months ago, it was said it was a bodily reaction (not sure if “immune” reaction is the correct term) of the lungs that caused death. That’s why if you have drugs that can reduce the lung inflammation ( ivermectin was mooted, but that would seem to have been debunked now) that would make the illness much more survivable.

---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36106928)
Talking to yourself now ! :D
No one else listens to me.

spiderplant 23-12-2021 20:39
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36106932)
That’s why if you have drugs that can reduce the lung inflammation ( ivermectin was mooted, but that would seem to have been debunked now) that would make the illness much more survivable
That's how dexamethasone works

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53077879

Taf 23-12-2021 20:40
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36106856)
So basically, they are saying its milder ?
That makes it sound like Delta is "mild".

It's not "as nasty" is more accurate.

Pierre 23-12-2021 21:15
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36106936)
That makes it sound like Delta is "mild".
Without coming across as flippant or heartless COVID, of any known variant, in the great scheme of things is mild.

170,000 deaths in the U.K. over two years against 11.7 M “recorded” infections, the actual figure is probably at the very minimum 3x that, almost certainly more.

On the “recorded” infections alone that is a 98.5% survival rate.

Obviously, vaccines, have had a major influence on that, but bottom line is………..stop being scared.

Sephiroth 23-12-2021 21:36
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36106940)
Without coming across as flippant or heartless COVID, of any known variant, in the great scheme of things is mild.

170,000 deaths in the U.K. over two years against 11.7 M “recorded” infections, the actual figure is probably at the very minimum 3x that, almost certainly more.

On the “recorded” infections alone that is a 98.5% survival rate.

Obviously, vaccines, have had a major influence on that, but bottom line is………..stop being scared.
Well, there Pierre has it.

There are no "recorded" influenza infections bar those that end up in hospital; there is no Flu Test. You get bad flus, mild flus; you get Coronavirus colds. Now we're getting mild Covid-19.

So, the day the Guvmin takes away the Daily Stats is the day that normality will happen.

nffc 23-12-2021 21:38
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36106941)
Well, there Pierre has it.

There are no "recorded" influenza infections bar those that end up in hospital; there is no Flu Test. You get bad flus, mild flus; you get Coronavirus colds. Now we're getting mild Covid-19.

So, the day the Guvmin takes away the Daily Stats is the day that normality will happen.
You can presumably do a PCR test for any virus, though this doesn't show that there's an infection, just that the gene sequence you're looking for is in the sample you have.

Hugh 23-12-2021 21:48
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36106940)
Without coming across as flippant or heartless COVID, of any known variant, in the great scheme of things is mild.

170,000 deaths in the U.K. over two years against 11.7 M “recorded” infections, the actual figure is probably at the very minimum 3x that, almost certainly more.

On the “recorded” infections alone that is a 98.5% survival rate.

Obviously, vaccines, have had a major influence on that, but bottom line is………..stop being scared.
Not sure if it’s the best description of the 3rd leading cause of death in the U.K. for the last four months* as "mild"?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...s/november2021

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...es/october2021

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat.../september2021

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...les/august2021

Number 1 is Dementia and Alzheimer’s, & number 2 is ischaemic heart diseases, neither of which is infectious…

*And the leading cause of death for the year so far…

Pierre 23-12-2021 22:59
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36106943)
Not sure if it’s the best description of the 3rd leading cause of death in the U.K. for the last four months* as "mild"?
And, yet it is. Funny that.

I’ll play a game with you Hugh, from the following what would rather have?

1. Lung cancer, Bowel cancer, (other cancers)
2. Motor Neurone Disease
3. Parkinson’s Disease
4. Dementia
5. COVID
6. Death from old age having escaped the previous 5.

I’d take 6, and 5 would be a very close second. Before you trot out the « you can’t catch cancer » trope. At least 30% of people in the country will get cancer and the survival rate isn’t 98.5%. Dementia is fast becoming even worse.

So focus on the things, and fixing the things, that will really kill you. Also possibly don’t ride motorbikes either. I got rid of mine 8yrs ago and my life chances improved greatly.

pip08456 24-12-2021 00:06
Re: Coronavirus
 
1 Attachment(s)
This is interesting.

US Army Creates Single Vaccine Against All COVID & SARS Variants, Researchers Say

Quote:
Within weeks, scientists at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research expect to announce that they have developed a vaccine that is effective against COVID-19 and all its variants, even Omicron, as well as previous SARS-origin viruses that have killed millions of people worldwide.

The achievement is the result of almost two years of work on the virus. The Army lab received its first DNA sequencing of the COVID-19 virus in early 2020. Very early on, Walter Reed’s infectious diseases branch decided to focus on making a vaccine that would work against not just the existing strain but all of its potential variants as well.
https://www.defenseone.com/technolog...riants/360089/

UKSHA releases omicron risk assessment.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...3&d=1640304261

Blackshep 24-12-2021 00:49
Re: Coronavirus
 
Far more detailed statistics are needed in the public realm such as difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated as I've heard many talk as though all new infections are unvaccinated people which is not the case at all. Even the death figures are just clumped together for the public with "covid related death" being very common not distinguishing between covid direct deaths and deaths of those from the vaccine.

None of this changes the fact that the mortality rate of covid is very small and doesn't warrant the response it's so far had.

OLD BOY 24-12-2021 00:53
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36106944)
And, yet it is. Funny that.

I’ll play a game with you Hugh, from the following what would rather have?

1. Lung cancer, Bowel cancer, (other cancers)
2. Motor Neurone Disease
3. Parkinson’s Disease
4. Dementia
5. COVID
6. Death from old age having escaped the previous 5.

I’d take 6, and 5 would be a very close second. Before you trot out the « you can’t catch cancer » trope. At least 30% of people in the country will get cancer and the survival rate isn’t 98.5%. Dementia is fast becoming even worse.

So focus on the things, and fixing the things, that will really kill you. Also possibly don’t ride motorbikes either. I got rid of mine 8yrs ago and my life chances improved greatly.
Good point, Pierre. And this just demonstrates why so many people are questioning why we are all being pressured into panic mode.

‘Living to live with Covid’ does not mean more lockdowns. It means learning to live with the reality of life.

Snowflakes need to recognise that they have to melt eventually.

Hugh 24-12-2021 09:48
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36106944)
And, yet it is. Funny that.

I’ll play a game with you Hugh, from the following what would rather have?

1. Lung cancer, Bowel cancer, (other cancers)
2. Motor Neurone Disease
3. Parkinson’s Disease
4. Dementia
5. COVID
6. Death from old age having escaped the previous 5.

I’d take 6, and 5 would be a very close second. Before you trot out the « you can’t catch cancer » trope. At least 30% of people in the country will get cancer and the survival rate isn’t 98.5%. Dementia is fast becoming even worse.

So focus on the things, and fixing the things, that will really kill you. Also possibly don’t ride motorbikes either. I got rid of mine 8yrs ago and my life chances improved greatly.
Just repeating the statement that the biggest cause of death in the U.K. this year is "mild" doesn’t make it true…

In response to your "game", we don’t get much of a choice about 1, 2, 3, 4, & 6 - we can have a choice about 5, and our actions on that choice impact others.

---------- Post added at 09:48 ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 ----------

[/COLOR]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36106951)
Good point, Pierre. And this just demonstrates why so many people are questioning why we are all being pressured into panic mode.

‘Living to live with Covid’ does not mean more lockdowns. It means learning to live with the reality of life.

Snowflakes need to recognise that they have to melt eventually.
People can disagree on approaches to COVID and it’s impact without making derogatory comments - you should try it…

Sephiroth 24-12-2021 09:53
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36106951)
Good point, Pierre. And this just demonstrates why so many people are questioning why we are all being pressured into panic mode.

‘Living to live with Covid’ does not mean more lockdowns. It means learning to live with the reality of life.

Snowflakes need to recognise that they have to melt eventually.
Good point, OB.

Hope that helps.

papa smurf 24-12-2021 10:42
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36106955)
Good point, OB.

Hope that helps.
Let's hope no one googles pages of snowflake statistics:)


Millions set for early FOURTH jab after it emerges booster effect starts wearing off after just 10 weeks:
by heck this jab business is getting a bit silly.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ions-rise.html

Taf 24-12-2021 10:46
Re: Coronavirus
 
Covid booster jabs and vaccinations will be not be available in Wales on Christmas Day or 26 December, the Welsh government has confirmed.

When I think of all the other people that work through xmas, I wonder why they opted for this?

Taf 24-12-2021 10:48
Re: Coronavirus
 
3 Attachment(s)
Wales stats

Sephiroth 24-12-2021 10:53
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36106956)
Let's hope no one googles pages of snowflake statistics:)


Millions set for early FOURTH jab after it emerges booster effect starts wearing off after just 10 weeks:
by heck this jab business is getting a bit silly.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ions-rise.html
There are one or two experts on here that are at liberty to correct me.

But, OB has been right all along in that if you cocoon people in their homes or otherwise reduce their natural exposure to germs, then the immune system has had nothing to attack and so immunity wanes. Simples or what?

1andrew1 24-12-2021 10:54
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36106957)
Covid booster jabs and vaccinations will be not be available in Wales on Christmas Day or 26 December, the Welsh government has confirmed.

When I think of all the other people that work through xmas, I wonder why they opted for this?
Probably because few patients would turn up on Christmas Day. Don't know why re 26th though.

papa smurf 24-12-2021 11:12
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36106957)
Covid booster jabs and vaccinations will be not be available in Wales on Christmas Day or 26 December, the Welsh government has confirmed.

When I think of all the other people that work through xmas, I wonder why they opted for this?
Maybe it shows that the panic is not worth panicking about:angel:

Carth 24-12-2021 11:29
Re: Coronavirus
 
Will Santa have to do an LFT this evening before he goes out delivering?

Julian 24-12-2021 11:35
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36106963)
Will Santa have to do an LFT this evening before he goes out delivering?
I certainly hope so.

nomadking 24-12-2021 12:44
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36106944)
And, yet it is. Funny that.

I’ll play a game with you Hugh, from the following what would rather have?

1. Lung cancer, Bowel cancer, (other cancers)
2. Motor Neurone Disease
3. Parkinson’s Disease
4. Dementia
5. COVID
6. Death from old age having escaped the previous 5.

I’d take 6, and 5 would be a very close second. Before you trot out the « you can’t catch cancer » trope. At least 30% of people in the country will get cancer and the survival rate isn’t 98.5%. Dementia is fast becoming even worse.

So focus on the things, and fixing the things, that will really kill you. Also possibly don’t ride motorbikes either. I got rid of mine 8yrs ago and my life chances improved greatly.
None of the others are infectious. They can't be prevented by people self-isolating etc. If cancer was as transmittable and infectious as Omicron, then people would be a lot more cautious in their behaviour. Where a substance is found to be carcinogenic, then it tends to be removed from regular contact with people. The emphasis is that wherever possible, the number of cases of those other things is reduced. Eg Passive smoking.

If large number of people who are admitted to hospital for reasons other than covid, are infected with it, that is still a bad sign. Not only is it a sign of large numbers of people being infected by coming into contact with large numbers of people who were infectious, they also pose a risk to others in the hospital..

mrmistoffelees 24-12-2021 13:23
Re: Coronavirus
 
Pierre’s comments regarding hospitalisations don’t really hold any merit or purpose as we were just at the beginning of this wave/surge..


Last data for hospitalisations is 19th December according to the government website at which they were just over 1000 a day, however cases from 14 days prior to that we’re at approximately 50,000 a day.

Whilst the data we are getting is promising, we’re not out of the woods yet. The next 3-4 weeks are critical as to which way we progress.

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

Carth 24-12-2021 13:54
Re: Coronavirus
 
Does anyone have the figures for 'Flu' this year?

No, I can't be bothered to go looking myself :p:

Taf 24-12-2021 14:47
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36106970)
Does anyone have the figures for 'Flu' this year?

No, I can't be bothered to go looking myself :p:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...to-2022-season

Paul 24-12-2021 16:14
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36106970)
Does anyone have the figures for 'Flu' this year?
If its not Covid, no one cares :erm:
Remember, if you think you have a cold, its covid.
If you think its the flu, its covid.
If you got hit by a bus, its covid.

Taf 24-12-2021 16:49
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36106978)
If its not Covid, no one cares :erm:
Remember, if you think you have a cold, its covid.
If you think its the flu, its covid.
If you got hit by a bus, its covid.
Then you have a PCR test, and they find out if it is/was covid or not. :dozey:

Carth 24-12-2021 17:23
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36106978)
If its not Covid, no one cares :erm:
Remember, if you think you have a cold, its covid.
If you think its the flu, its covid.
If you got hit by a bus, its covid.
To be fair, I did have a quick peruse of Google . . and found lots & lots of 'Flu' mentioned in the URL links, yet nothing but Covid in the (mainly medical) articles they linked to.

I did find a medical stats page (from Nov 2021) that proclaimed - in bold - that "Flu was not present in Wales" :erm:

. . and another medical stats site, with lots of Covid graphs, and one chart that showed/stated that Covid deaths were 5 times higher than Flu deaths . . but the chart and data only dealt with men & women over 75 years of age. :erm:

:shrug:

Hugh 24-12-2021 17:49
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36106959)
There are one or two experts on here that are at liberty to correct me.

But, OB has been right all along in that if you cocoon people in their homes or otherwise reduce their natural exposure to germs, then the immune system has had nothing to attack and so immunity wanes. Simples or what?
You and OB may wish to contact all the Researchers & Professors of Epidemiology, Infectious Diseases, and Virology, as you may have found something they’ve overlooked…

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-upd...immune-systems
Quote:
I’ve been hearing people say that staying home and social distancing is harming our immune systems. The reasoning is that if we don’t come into contact with many germs, our immune systems weaken. This means that once we all start coming out of the house more, we’ll be more susceptible to colds and flu and even the new COVID-19 illness. Is this true?

We’ve been hearing this theory too, and we can assure you that this is NOT the way your immune system works.

Many people have heard of the “hygiene hypothesis” — the idea that individuals who are exposed to a variety of microbes (i.e., germs) in childhood build better immunity. In fact, there is evidence that young children who have early exposure to different types of germs are less likely to develop allergies and autoimmune disorders such as hay fever, asthma, or inflammatory bowel disease.

However, by the time you are an adult, you have already spent years being exposed to many types of bacteria and viruses. You’ve created a robust immune system that can respond to these microbes. Your immune system “remembers” viral and bacterial markers, and as soon as one of these markers shows up, your body starts making antibodies to destroy that intruder.

Sephiroth 24-12-2021 19:10
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36106988)
You and OB may wish to contact all the Researchers & Professors of Epidemiology, Infectious Diseases, and Virology, as you may have found something they’ve overlooked…

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-upd...immune-systems
The missing element of explanation in that article is why immunity from Covid-19 wanes after 10 weeks. Squaring that circle would be helpful.

Paul 24-12-2021 19:10
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Your immune system “remembers” viral and bacterial markers, and as soon as one of these markers shows up, your body starts making antibodies to destroy that intruder.
.. and yet our immunity apparently wanes, over a period of months, or even weeks, with talk of a 2nd booster jab now, in early 2022.

Hugh 24-12-2021 19:13
Re: Coronavirus
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36106994)
The missing element of explanation in that article is why immunity from Covid-19 wanes after 10 weeks. Squaring that circle would be helpful.
Can I ask what that has to do with your previous question re "immune system weakening", as most of the people who I know have been vaccinated/boostered aren’t confining themselves at home?

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...7&d=1640373073

Hugh 24-12-2021 19:15
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36106995)
.. and yet our immunity apparently wanes, over a period of months, or even weeks, with talk of a 2nd booster jab now, in early 2022.
Thats specific to COVID, not general immunity response, which Sephiroth was referring to…

Paul 24-12-2021 19:15
Re: Coronavirus
 
That article also mentions this, after the bit you quoted.

Quote:
But that doesn’t mean social distancing will have no effect on your immune system. The psychological effects of social isolation can affect your immune system. The culprits are loneliness and stress.
Quote:
Research shows that our anti-viral response is suppressed when we feel lonely.
Quote:
Stress has similarly harmful effects on immune function, because the hormones involved in a stress response

Hugh 24-12-2021 19:16
Re: Coronavirus
 
Agreed, but most people are now out and about…

From the actual report.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...riefing-33.pdf

Quote:
Vaccine effectiveness

Repeated VE analysis continues to show lower VE for symptomatic Omicron disease compared to Delta. There is evidence of waning of protection against symptomatic disease with increasing time after dose 2, and by 10 weeks after the booster dose, with a 15 to 25% reduction in vaccine effectiveness after 10 weeks. This waning is faster for Omicron than for Delta infections. There are insufficient severe cases of Omicron as yet to analyse vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation, but this is expected to be better sustained, for both primary and booster doses. This analysis will be iterated next week, although numbers may still restrict a robust analysis of protection against more severe outcomes. The VE data will also appear in the weekly COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report published routinely on a Thursday.

Paul 24-12-2021 19:34
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36106999)
Agreed, but most people are now out and about…
They were, not so much atm.

You quoted that article to question Sephiroth's original post about "cocooning people in their homes" affecting their immunity.
It actually agrees that isolation/lockdown does have an effect (just not quite for the reason he originally stated).

Sephiroth 24-12-2021 19:41
Re: Coronavirus
 
My original comment (the one about OB being right) takes us back to the earlier days of Covid and all references I make to the immune system is in that context.

There isn't a fully open society right now but the high Omicron uptake is bound to set the immune system going.

Hugh wasn't representing me correctly.

nomadking 24-12-2021 20:03
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36106994)
The missing element of explanation in that article is why immunity from Covid-19 wanes after 10 weeks. Squaring that circle would be helpful.
One of my concerns is over the interpretation of antibody levels. The way the immune system works is that it isn't pumping out antibodies for everything for the rest of your life. A few months after an infection or vaccination, the level of antibodies for the infection goes away quite naturally.
All vaccinations actually do is prepare the immune system to be able to respond a bit quicker to a reinfection. It doesn't have to work out the antibody to deal with it, it already knows what to do.
If covid is too quick for that response, then antibodies need to be present. If covid isn't that quick, then boosters aren't really required and all the talk of low antibody levels being a problem is misleading.

Mad Max 24-12-2021 20:23
Re: Coronavirus
 
Project fear in full swing, get a life people, and stop living under the stairs it's actually quite nice outside, honestly, no scary monsters.

pip08456 24-12-2021 20:29
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36107004)
One of my concerns is over the interpretation of antibody levels. The way the immune system works is that it isn't pumping out antibodies for everything for the rest of your life. A few months after an infection or vaccination, the level of antibodies for the infection goes away quite naturally.
All vaccinations actually do is prepare the immune system to be able to respond a bit quicker to a reinfection. It doesn't have to work out the antibody to deal with it, it already knows what to do.
If covid is too quick for that response, then antibodies need to be present. If covid isn't that quick, then boosters aren't really required and all the talk of low antibody levels being a problem is misleading.

papa smurf 24-12-2021 20:39
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36107005)
Project fear in full swing, get a life people, and stop living under the stairs it's actually quite nice outside, honestly, no scary monsters.
:tu:

Paul 24-12-2021 23:01
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36107005)
Project fear in full swing, get a life people, and stop living under the stairs it's actually quite nice outside, honestly, no scary monsters.
For the first time this week, I'm actually at home all day, relaxing. :D
All my shopping is done, and the last of my eating out before xmas was on Tuesday.

nomadking 24-12-2021 23:17
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36107006)
Link

Quote:
In general, the amount of antibody that is present declines over time after an infection has been cleared.
Sometimes, doctors can still measure antibodies after many years — as is the case with measles; and sometimes the antibodies go away more quickly, he added.
“But one of the really clever things about the immune system is that the cells that make this antibody then persist at some low level and form a population of memory cells that are there and able to respond much more briskly if the same pathogen or invader is encountered again on another occasion,” Kuritzkes said.
Link

Quote:
Quickly making lots of antibodies can stop an infection in its tracks. The first time your body fights a virus, it can take up to 15 days to make enough antibodies to get rid of it. With the help of Memory B-cells, the second time your body sees that virus, it can do the same in thing 5 days. It also makes 100 times more antibodies than it did the first time. The faster your body makes antibodies, the quicker the virus can be destroyed. With the help of Memory B-cells, you might get rid of it before you even feel sick. This is called gaining immunity.

OLD BOY 26-12-2021 03:20
Re: Coronavirus
 
I’ve been ignoring the hype the last few days and enjoying Christmas with my whole family. I am much more relaxed as a result.

I am not stressing about this any longer. I’d advise the rest of you to do the same. Just enjoy life while you have one.

A life spent under the stairs is no life at all. Just get your jabs and relax.

GrimUpNorth 26-12-2021 12:40
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107055)
I’ve been ignoring the hype the last few days and enjoying Christmas with my whole family. I am much more relaxed as a result.

I am not stressing about this any longer. I’d advise the rest of you to do the same. Just enjoy life while you have one.

A life spent under the stairs is no life at all. Just get your jabs and relax.
Is that because you've had a few days off worrying about what Coronavirus rubbish and inaccuracies to post next? ;)

OLD BOY 26-12-2021 13:04
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36107069)
Is that because you've had a few days off worrying about what Coronavirus rubbish and inaccuracies to post next? ;)
No, but the constant drip, drip of negative coronavirus stories on the BBC and elsewhere is worrying my wife to death and I have to deal with this every day. It’s bloody exhausting and it’s being going on constantly for months and months.

I want to hear the rest of the news we are missing out on.

Mad Max 26-12-2021 13:21
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107071)
No, but the constant drip, drip of negative coronavirus stories on the BBC and elsewhere is worrying my wife to death and I have to deal with this every day. It’s bloody exhausting and it’s being going on constantly for months and months.

I want to hear the rest of the news we are missing out on.
Agreed.

pip08456 26-12-2021 14:13
Re: Coronavirus
 
1 Attachment(s)
Omicron cases are falling.

Correction, growth rate is falling which will lead to cases doing so as well.
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1640527954

Taf 26-12-2021 15:30
Re: Coronavirus
 
If our blood held on to all the antibodies we produce, it would set like concrete.

The memory cells will still be lying in wait though, although they can take a few days to make enough antibodies to combat a nasty strain of viral infection.

"Unvaccinated people who catch Covid are 60 TIMES more likely to end up in intensive care".

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/fam...Znh?li=AAJt1k3

---------- Post added at 15:30 ---------- Previous post was at 15:10 ----------

Quote:
Speaking on Sky News on 19 December, the health secretary Sajid Javid said: “If we look at those that are the most ill in hospital, needing the most care and attention, around nine out of 10 of them are unvaccinated.”

Full Fact asked the Department of Health and Social Care what Mr Javid meant. It told us that his nine out of 10 figure did not refer to all patients in ICU, but only those receiving Extra Corporeal Membrane Oxygenation (ECMO) treatment, essentially a type of artificial lung which oxygenates the blood.

Data on this shows that of 154 patients in England who received ECMO due to a Covid infection between the beginning of July and 22 November, 141 were unvaccinated. This amounts to about 92%, and is similar to the figures reported previously in the Sunday Times.
https://fullfact.org/health/unvaccin...annel4-icnarc/

Sephiroth 26-12-2021 15:55
Re: Coronavirus
 
With a bit of luck, all the unvaccinated will get Covid and then it’ll all be over.

It really is time to untype Covid.

papa smurf 26-12-2021 16:26
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107086)
With a bit of luck, all the unvaccinated will get Covid and then it’ll all be over.

It really is time to untype Covid.
What makes you think they haven't had it.

Sephiroth 26-12-2021 16:28
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36107087)
What makes you think they haven't had it.
The Covid data plus Guvmin statements.

papa smurf 26-12-2021 16:33
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107088)
The Covid data plus Guvmin statements.
oh yea i bet that's all true just like all the other guvmin garbage.

Hom3r 26-12-2021 17:05
Re: Coronavirus
 
My niece tested positive, but luckily her isolation ended on the 23rd.


So Christmas was able to sort of happen.

Pierre 26-12-2021 20:04
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107086)
With a bit of luck, all the unvaccinated will get Covid and then it’ll all be over.

It really is time to untype Covid.
Do you know, I was about to type a reply saying leave the unvaccinated alone, they’re a small number etc etc da da da……

But, I’ve looked into it, and yes they are small, but they are still potentially 5.3M ( including those that can’t be vaccinated)

Considering COVID is at the very minimum 98.5 survivable, that is at least 80,000 that will go hospital and die, there are no figures on who will go in and survive.

At the height of the last peak it was around 38K in hospital.

So I appreciate the concern

Obviously time frame is a big variable, 80K over six or seven weeks, no problem. 80K over two weeks big problem.

All that said, it’s been two weeks since Omicron hit and no issues as yet. Our Welsh and Scottish friends need to remember their leaders actions when they ask for their vote.

OLD BOY 27-12-2021 17:04
Re: Coronavirus
 
No new restrictions in England are being announced by the PM today. Common sense prevails. Long may it last.

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/boris-joh...dvisers/191767

Sephiroth 27-12-2021 17:14
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107152)
No new restrictions in England are being announced by the PM today. Common sense prevails. Long may it last.

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/boris-joh...dvisers/191767
Also in BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59804686

joglynne 27-12-2021 17:24
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107155)
I really must add more Tonic to my Gin. I just read the above BBC report and I had to read the second paragraph twice 'cause the first time I read it I wondered how us all trying to be celibate outdoors could help. hic. Off to top up my drink.

mrmistoffelees 27-12-2021 20:45
Re: Coronavirus
 
Pierre, since hospitalisation data hasn’t been updated since the 20th December (according to the gov website) I’m interested in understanding how you reach there’s no real problems ?

1andrew1 27-12-2021 23:58
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36107172)
Pierre, since hospitalisation data hasn’t been updated since the 20th December (according to the gov website) I’m interested in understanding how you reach there’s no real problems ?
On the screen, not good for England.
Quote:
The number of people in hospital with COVID-19 in England is at its highest level since March, new figures reveal.

The number stood at 8,474 as of 8am today, according to NHS England.

This is up 27% from a week earlier and is the highest number since 5 March, when the country was under tough lockdown restrictions.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...march-12504769

But
Quote:
People should be careful not to “over-interpret” data pointing to a rise in Covid-related hospital admissions, an NHS chief has warned.

Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, which represents hospitals and other trusts in England, said that an increase in hospitalisations could be explained by people without Covid symptoms going into hospital for other reasons but testing positive during their stay
https://inews.co.uk/news/health/covi...-chief-1371889

Paul 28-12-2021 00:51
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
But the health secretary said people should "remain cautious" and celebrate outside on New Year's Eve if possible.
Well that would have been a lot easier if they hadnt cancelled all the outside events. :dozey:

Hom3r 28-12-2021 12:35
Re: Coronavirus
 
I got back from my local Sainsbury's, with food for a get together tomorrow.


But my sister has just me that my nephew tested positive and is isolating, so to protect my dad it's off and luckily the food can be put into the freezer.

OLD BOY 28-12-2021 15:26
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107179)
On the screen, not good for England.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...march-12504769

But

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/covi...-chief-1371889

‘ People should be careful not to “over-interpret” data pointing to a rise in Covid-related hospital admissions, an NHS chief has warned.

Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, which represents hospitals and other trusts in England, said that an increase in hospitalisations could be explained by people without Covid symptoms going into hospital for other reasons but testing positive during their stay’
Thanks for posting the positive news on that, Andrew. This is what I have been saying all along.

I predict the next big revelation will be that the more we test, the more cases we will pick up!

Hugh 28-12-2021 15:58
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107217)
Thanks for posting the positive news on that, Andrew. This is what I have been saying all along.

I predict the next big revelation will be that the more we test, the more cases we will pick up!
15th December
Tests - 1,635,922
Cases - 103,940

23rd December
Tests - 1,582,738
Cases - 114,616

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing

OLD BOY 28-12-2021 16:04
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107232)
15th December
Tests - 1,635,922
Cases - 103,940

23rd December
Tests - 1,582,738
Cases - 114,616

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing
Thank you, but I am referring to the dates when infections were registered at under 50,000. Since then, a lot more people have been tested in the run up to Christmas, and now, unsurprisingly, the number of infections has shot up.

Paul 28-12-2021 16:45
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107232)
15th December
Tests - 1,635,922
Cases - 103,940

23rd December
Tests - 1,582,738
Cases - 114,616

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing
or

14th December
Tests - 1,319,891
Cases - 95,063

15th December
Tests - 1,635,922
Cases - 103,490

Anyone can pick random dates to suit. ;)

spiderplant 28-12-2021 17:01
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107217)
I predict the next big revelation will be that the more we test, the more cases we will pick up!
So why do you think that two years into the pandemic, record numbers are suddenly getting tested?

Paul 28-12-2021 17:05
Re: Coronavirus
 
New rules requiring lots more testing, and of course, the obvious media driven fear factor.

Dave42 28-12-2021 17:41
Re: Coronavirus
 
England has reported another record number of daily coronavirus cases, with 117,093 new infections.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-eng...7-093-12505230

Hugh 28-12-2021 18:04
Re: Coronavirus
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36107246)
or

14th December
Tests - 1,319,891
Cases - 95,063

15th December
Tests - 1,635,922
Cases - 103,490

Anyone can pick random dates to suit. ;)
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1640714515

Tests increased by 14.3% in the last 7 days
Positive tests increased by 30.3% in the last 7 days
Hospital Admissions increased by 8.2% in the last 7 days

Good news is that deaths are down by 27.2%

nffc 28-12-2021 18:14
Re: Coronavirus
 
The data is surely a bit odd at the moment with reporting and bank holidays not being consistent across the UK. Plus more people doing tests to see friends etc around Christmas.

Mr K 28-12-2021 19:29
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36107260)
England has reported another record number of daily coronavirus cases, with 117,093 new infections.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-eng...7-093-12505230
And that record's been broken the very next day, now 129,000 with 1,000 more in hospital.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...droidApp_Other

Hospitality before hospitals in England it seems.

Carth 28-12-2021 19:35
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36107271)
And that record's been broken the very next day, now 129,000 with 1,000 more in hospital.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...droidApp_Other

Hospitality before hospitals in England it seems.
Does it say how many of the 129k were people who had already caught it once (twice, thrice etc) :D

We can't keep on breaking records unless we all keep catching it :p:

Paul 28-12-2021 20:12
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36107271)
Hospitality before hospitals in England it seems.
I certainly prefer Hospitality to hospital ;)

Mad Max 28-12-2021 20:22
Re: Coronavirus
 
Could be heard immunity soon.;)

pip08456 28-12-2021 20:23
Re: Coronavirus
 
How rediculous is this? Drakeford logic strikes again.

Quote:
A number of community clubs decided to go ahead with their Boxing Day fixtures and some utilised the government allowance of 50 spectators.

One of those was Caerphilly RFC, who staged a match between their under 30s and over 30s at Virginia Park...

...“Our steward on the gate had a clicker and counted 50 people in,” explained Ashman.

“He then ushered everybody else up the ramp to watch it inside the club.

“We were obviously limited on numbers, but we have got quite a large clubhouse, so we managed to get around 140 people inside, seated in tables of six.

“People took it in good humour, to be fair. There was no real angst about whether you were outside or inside.

“Our clubhouse faces the pitch and we’ve got a load of windows across it...

...“So we had eight tables looking out at the ground, with around 50 people watching it through the windows and then the rest watching it on TV...

...“The police visited us later on in the afternoon and they were content with the arrangements we had in place, so it was a good day.”
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...ee-50-22583757

Meanwhile a bit of good news.

Quote:
South Africa jubilant as Omicron wave subsides rapidly with minimal Covid hospital admissions and Delta killed off: ‘Expect the same in other countries’
https://www.cityam.com/south-africa-...medium=twitter

1andrew1 28-12-2021 23:06
Re: Coronavirus
 
Staff absence due to Covid now a significant issue for the NHS.
Quote:
Health leaders in England warn surge in Covid absences threatens patient care

But Dr Chaand Nagpaul, chair of the British Medical Association’s ruling council, suggested Boris Johnson, the prime minister, had ignored “the elephant in the room” of staff absence levels.

About 43 per cent of NHS absences in London were currently due to Covid, compared to about 16 per cent before the Omicron variant first appeared at the end of November, he said.

According to the most recent official data, on December 19 the number of staff absences within NHS acute trusts in England related to Covid-19 stood at 18,829, a rise of around 50 per cent in the course of a week.

Nagpaul warned that the data understated the severity of the situation as they did not take account of absences in general practice and community services.

Rota gaps due to Covid meant some appointments were being cancelled at short notice and, in some instances, blood tests delayed, he warned.

Some patients were also finding it harder to get through to a GP due to sickness among reception staff. “These are very real issues that are affecting the provision of care both in general practice and also in hospitals,” he said...

Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, which represents hospital, ambulance, community and mental health trusts, suggested staff sickness may currently be a more serious threat to the health service than rising admissions from the highly transmissible new strain...

Later he told the FT that pressures in London were “particularly acute” and trusts were having to redeploy staff to maintain essential services.

Covid-related staff absences were “compounding an already extremely pressured system which is at full stretch”, he said.
https://www.ft.com/content/e1b48f47-...1-70e76f462d75

Paul 28-12-2021 23:59
Re: Coronavirus
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59814032
Quote:
Covid cases in England have hit another record high, with a further 117,093 infections reported on Tuesday.
However ....

Quote:
Some 9,546 people are in hospital with Covid, the highest since March but well below the peak of 34,000 in January.
Quote:
So far, the surge in cases driven by Omicron has not led to a similarly sharp rise in hospital admissions, even taking into account the lag between infection and hospital treatment.

Hugh 29-12-2021 10:10
Re: Coronavirus
 
7% of all hospital beds, as opposed to 24% from last year - the vaccines/booster looks like they're reducing severity of the COVID on people.

Mr K 29-12-2021 10:47
Re: Coronavirus
 
It's the numbers of staff in the NHS that are getting covid or having to self isolate. It's crippling services. If you need treatment for anything else you'll be waiting a long time.

Mrs K reports patients are coming in with better quality PPE than the staff ... Clap for the NHS? We can't even be bothered to protect them any more. The keyboard warriors shirking at home, with online shopping have short memories. Attack the NHS and protect Boris seems to be the new right wing ideology.

papa smurf 29-12-2021 11:58
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107310)
7% of all hospital beds, as opposed to 24% from last year - the vaccines/booster looks like they're reducing severity of the COVID on people.
Or it's a less severe variant.

1andrew1 29-12-2021 12:55
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36107283)
I certainly prefer Hospitality to hospital ;)
:D:D:D

---------- Post added at 12:55 ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36107316)
It's the numbers of staff in the NHS that are getting covid or having to self isolate. It's crippling services. If you need treatment for anything else you'll be waiting a long time.

Mrs K reports patients are coming in with better quality PPE than the staff ... Clap for the NHS? We can't even be bothered to protect them any more. The keyboard warriors shirking at home, with online shopping have short memories. Attack the NHS and protect Boris seems to be the new right wing ideology.
Yes, the numbers of NHS staff off with Covid was mentioned by the health leaders yesterday. It's yet another thing to factor in for the government when making decisions on how to manage the crisis. I don't envy them the task.

OLD BOY 29-12-2021 13:45
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107329)
:D:D:D

---------- Post added at 12:55 ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 ----------


Yes, the numbers of NHS staff off with Covid was mentioned by the health leaders yesterday. It's yet another thing to factor in for the government when making decisions on how to manage the crisis. I don't envy them the task.
Simples. Let people take personal responsibility.

Hugh 29-12-2021 13:51
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107339)
Simples. Let people take personal responsibility.
Not that simples…

People who don’t/won’t take ‘personal responsibility’ can have a negative impact on those who do - just like drink-driving…

Pierre 29-12-2021 14:32
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36107172)
Pierre, since hospitalisation data hasn’t been updated since the 20th December (according to the gov website) I’m interested in understanding how you reach there’s no real problems ?
Well it’s the 29th and I’m of the same opinion, how about you?

tweetiepooh 29-12-2021 14:49
Re: Coronavirus
 
So as as been mooted from the start - Covid caused major issues at the start because it was novel, now with vaccinations and infections our bodies are learning to recognise Covid type attackers and will be able to deal with them more effectively. We can still get new variants pop-up that could cause problems but that's pretty much like typical flu variants that occasionally give a bad season.

OLD BOY 29-12-2021 15:47
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107340)
Not that simples…

People who don’t/won’t take ‘personal responsibility’ can have a negative impact on those who do - just like drink-driving…
Surely, those who are taking ‘personal responsibility’ have had themselves vaccinated and therefore will only get milder symptoms, if any, if they become infected.

All this hype about the number of infections is an over-reaction that only the unvaccinated should be concerned about. What people also seem to be missing is that the ‘no of infections’ is simply the number of people who have tested positive for the virus. Most have minimal or no symptoms at all.

We seem to have become a nation of babies demanding protection from our parental government against a big bad entity that seems to be creating rather more noise than is justified.

There will be more variants, and those who demand more measures each time this happens for decades ahead are not being realistic.

Sephiroth 29-12-2021 16:01
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107363)
Surely, those who are taking ‘personal responsibility’ have had themselves vaccinated and therefore will only get milder symptoms, if any, if they become infected.

All this hype about the number of infections is an over-reaction that only the unvaccinated should be concerned about. What people also seem to be missing is that the ‘no of infections’ is simply the number of people who have tested positive for the virus. Most have minimal or no symptoms at all.

We seem to have become a nation of babies demanding protection from our parental government against a big bad entity that seems to be creating rather more noise than is justified.

There will be more variants, and those who demand more measures each time this happens for decades ahead are not being realistic.
Is that right? Isn’t it a case of Guvmin treating us as babies based on the scientists’ paranoia?

As to more variants - isn’t it a case of Omicron has found its optimal survival means?

mrmistoffelees 29-12-2021 17:43
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36107345)
Well it’s the 29th and I’m of the same opinion, how about you?
I believe there’s not enough data to warrant a decision yet. To add, I don’t believe we need as many cases to trigger a major issue with the NHS due to the amount of clinical staff needing to either self isolate or being off sick

How did you reach your opinion?

---------- Post added at 17:43 ---------- Previous post was at 17:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107368)
Is that right? Isn’t it a case of Guvmin treating us as babies based on the scientists’ paranoia?

As to more variants - isn’t it a case of Omicron has found its optimal survival means?

Possibly, but not definitively

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/7839167002

As has been said before, the greater the opportunity the virus has to mutate, logically, the greater the chance of said mutation becoming more damaging to the host.


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